Friday, 4 April 2014

Why Swing?

We picked this up in the JH forum:

kimHager on Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:19 pm

After this many pages of swinging /swingers I was looking through many and at this page it was definitely adult swinging before that the searches turned up swinging houses but let me see if I can post the main link and keep scrolling after page 875 that's where there were many more

Very, very interesting. Right up our alley, so to speak. That meant we just had to get our hands right in on it.

And were we in for a surprise, or better said, 8 surprises:

1. The first surprise was to find out the number of computers/hard drives that were forensically examined in the period 19-21 May 2007: a total of 9 (nine).

Unless shown otherwise, during that period of time, the only people who had their computer material seized for examination were Murat and Malinka.

We know Murat was made arguido on 15 May, after warrant issued on 14th.

From the dates of last use, we can see that it was only on the 16th the various computer/hardware drives were seized by PJ.

That's 4.5 computers a person. Maybe not strange for a real estate businessman but certainly it is for a simple employee like Malinka.

All the information about these forensic examinations by the PJ on all these computers are on the following links:

2. The second surprise was that the computers/hard drives that appear in the PJ Files are identified by serial number which makes it rather a difficult task to keep track of which is which.

We overcame this difficulty by deciding to name them by the respective page number of the PJ File of each forensic exam.

So, on 19 May 2007, computer 558 was examined

On 20 May 2007 were computers 370, 483, 705, 814, 904, 987 and 1054.

Lastly, computer 340 was on 21 May 2007.

3. Third surprise was the fact that it isn't clear in the PJ Files to whom each computer belonged to.

We honestly expected ownership to be stated perfectly clear.

If computer 588 was clearly said to be from Malinka, about all the others it only an educated guess can be made .

We won’t do that because we think that in this instance only with absolute certainty should one state to whom each computer belonged to.

4. Fourth surprise, a very pleasant one. Page 875, referenced by kimHager in the opening comment quoted from JH does show clearly that “swingers” and “swinging” are words that appear with noticeable frequency.

But why this frequency?

Because swing was one of the keywords that PJ looked specifically for on those 9 computers/hard drives.

They are 24 overall and listed here in alphabetical order: eiddam, encomenda, kid, lolita, mad, MaddMaddieMaddy, Madel(ale)ine, Madelaine, Madeleine, MalinkaMuratpack, package,pacote, pedoRobert, Robert Murat, Serg(ily)Sergei, Sergey, Sophie andswing.

On reading them, one immediately understands why all of them are keywords related to the case. All with the exception of 2:Sophie and swing.

In fact we can separate the keywords into 3 major groups:

To do with Maddie: eiddam, Mad, MaddMaddie, Maddy, Madel(ale)ine, Madelaine, andMadeleine.

To do with Murat: MalinkaMuratRobert, Robert Murat, Serg(ily)Sergei and Sergey.

To do with paedophilia: encomenda, kid, lolita, pack, package, pacote and pedo.

About paedophilia we also noted that all computers were checked for “sexual abuse on minors” having been cleared of that.

Two computers returned the word lolita: computer 705 related to computer software and computer 987related to porn sites with “lolita” in their names having been visited.

Then you have the two, Sophie and swing, that don’t fit naturally in any category.

Sophiecan be put, with logic, in the paedophilia keyword category, assuming the PJ was looking to see if  the owner of the computer was involved in any way with child trafficking which could then mean Murat’s daughter could have also been targeted.

So, in truth and reasoning, only the keywordswing has a different logic to have appeared from all others. It stands distinctly apart. It's the odd one out. 

Paedophilia was thoroughly investigated. Bestiality was also.

Swinging is not illegal, as our detractors repeatedly and correctly point out, so why look for its vestiges on these computers? Why swing? Why not horticulture or BDSM? Both would, just like swing, have appeared to be completely unrelated to the explanation as to why a little girl had gone missing

Swing was the keyword to look for on computers/hard drives, please be reminded, seized while directly related with the Maddie investigation.

It was not a choice by chance as it was used all the 9 times, as we'll show you next.

5. Add to this, surprise five which was to find out that the most searched keywords were swing and lolita. Only these 2 keywords were searched for on ALL computers/hard drives.

Sophie comes 3rd, as it wasn’t investigated on computer 904. It was searched on all others but not on that one. We don’t know why nor consider that as a relevant fact.

It further reinforces the question as to why was swinga keyword as now one has to ask why was it investigated in all 9 computers/hard drives?

As we said, apparently there is no relationship whatsoever between the disappearance of Maddie and a legal sexual activity undertaken by consenting adults. And we’re absolutely certain that PJ didn’t come up with a random word just for the fun of it.

So it’s very clear that between 19 and 21 May 2007, for the PJ, swinging had a direct relationship with Maddie's disappearance. Why, we don't know but that it did, it did.

Even if Murat and Malinka had nothing to do with case, and we think they had, this shows clearly that PJ was looking among others, for vestiges of swinging.

And we think the crux question is, just 15 days after she disappeared why did PJ think swinging was directly related to Maddie?

Swinging and paedophilia are polar opposites. They couldn't be any more different. The first is a voluntary pleasure between adults and the second an abhorrent subjugation of children.

So in what way did PJ think swinging was related to the fact Maddie disappeared?

6. Surprises numbers six and seven were the fact that the word  swing was returned on 2 computers: “814 and 904.

On computer814 it was found relating with internet searching as per forensic report (1). These search results are listed as DOC 4 to this computer's forensic examination report:

That is a staggering 40 pages of registries for swing!!!

An example of one of those pages:

To be precise, that makes a total of 908 registries linked solely to the keyword swing.

One could think that this surely depicts the interest of someone who finds swinging titillating and as any adult is entitled, regularly visits sites with this topic.

You know that we aren’t judgemental so if we listed all the pages of DOC 4 relating to swinging we did it for a reason.

You see, this person visited 884 of these 908 links on 3 different occasions. And if one considers that on 1 of those occasions was to only 1 link, then he visited 883 links on only 2 occasions.

We don’t know when the other 24 were visited as it isn't said when the links visited were last accessed (pgs 892 and 893).

Let’s detail those 3 occasions:

On 05/02/07, he visited 807 links.

On 14/05/07, he visited only 1 link.

On 16/05/07, he visited 76 links.

Not exactly a continued interest in the topic. On 5 Feb he shows a highly acute interest but the urge only comes back to him months later, on 16 May.

Please notice that this particular urge comes, certainly by coincidence, on the day after Murat is named arguido.

And also certainly by coincidence, ALL 76 registries of 16 May are “Last accessed: 16.05.2007 0:22”, “File created: 13.09.2006 13:09:2006” and “Last written: 16.05.2007 0:20”.

There is even a search term Midlands/Leicester/g.spotswingers on page 879. Other searches relate to Algarve and various other international locations.

He researched swinging in Catalonia, Belgium, Greece, etc… and in relation to yachts and sailing, We have to highlight that Jane Tanner went sailing with Naylors. If none on the group knew other than the T9, how did she get invited, on her own, to join a sailing group she wasn't part of before? She doesn't  seem to have any experience in sailing that she speaks of.

7. As we said, surprise seven came from computer 904 in which 4 files containing “swinging” were found as per forensic report (2). They are listed in pg 948.

Original here
The first file was from Outlook sent items. It seems that swingwas referenced in the outgoing mail from this computer.

The second file was related with a “SES Group”. At this point in time we don’t know what this acronym stands for, most likely an impromptu one, but we wouldn't be surprised if we found out that one of the “S” stood for swinging. After all, it was a return result of keyword swing.

The other two files seem that one is a replica of the other. One is from the Documents and Settings directory and the other from the “RECYLER”: Thomsonfly\Quotes\2006\2006 Spain PR\Barcelona Metropolitan.eml

Thomsonfly is mentioned in Algarve Resident as flying to Faro. Flights stopped in 2008. Coventry is a small airport. So maybe more likely to have steps than an airbridge? About the steps to the plane, it may be worth pointing out that the family are shown boarding a plane with steps on their outward journey.

Thomsonfly stopped flights to Barcelona from Coventry airport in December 2007.

It was a scrappy little airport struggling to survive with cheap and no-frills flights and now no longer operates.

On websleuths, a source told a person commenting that McCanns travelled with Thomson Travel from Coventry and returned by Easyjet to East Midlands.

Maybe the McCanns didn’t have the package deal and East Midlands was not the airport Mark Warner used.

One is FOAF and the other a guess, so make of both what you will.

Martin Walkerdine, on websleuths, posted the comment about airports in December 2007. He also said the Tapas meal was a decoy and that Maddie was already dead.

And isn’t it interesting how Barcelona pops up? It’s a city that for some strange reason crosses paths frequently with this case. And we’re not talking about “Barcelona-Victoria” or even the Metodo 3.

Don't forget that much more important than finding swinging references in computers “814 and 904is the fact that PJ was searching for “swing” on all 9 computers/hard drives directly related to the investigation concerning Maddie's disappearance.

8. The eighth surprise is when PJ cross-checked the agendas from Robert Murat, Jennifer Murat and Murat's girlfriend, Michaela, with Ocean club staff:

Original here
Outros Apensos 1 Vol 6 pg 1222:

Compared the numbers in the listings of PHONE BOOKS and PDAs of ROBERT MURAT, MICHAELA WALCZUCH and JENNIFER MURAT with outgoing calls and phone numbers of the people questioned in the process and of the list of the Ocean Club staff it was found, namely, the following correlations:

- 96XXXXXXX, appears in MICHAELA’s phone book and is associated to MARINA CASTELA, OC’s general housekeeper (pg 346);

- 28XXXXXXX, same people and places above, it also arises associated with TANJA or TÂNIA (German citizen) person and / or number to who
MICHAELA makes and receives various calls;

- 91XXXXXXX, appears in MICHAELA’s phonebook associated with a SÓNIA. However it is indicated in the process (pg 564) as contact of SÍLVIA CRAVINHO, laundry worker in OC, under MARINA CASTELA;

- 91XXXXXXX, Secretary of Director of OC, and return call number made by JENNIFER in 12/05.”

Marina Castela made 2 statements. She had worked for the OC for 20 years and member of Jehovah's Witnesses with Michaela Walczuch but claimed to know nothing about Robert Murat.

Silvia Cravinho made a statement. Laundry worker who was given a bag of McCann clothes by Mark Warner, men's, women's and children's of different sizes on 5 May, she doesn’t say, but presumably to wash.

Secretary to OC director Joan Brenda Smith Azevedo Coutinho, mother of Luisa who writes alleged note in reception book. We spoke of both in our post Chasing Staff(14Feb14).

About Tania, we can only say that  Murat had a Tania R in his phone list, an Ex Remax colleague. He also has a Sonia C on his phone book.

Murat's associate, Malinka, is Russian...and had his car burned on the street, with a painted message written on the pavement: FALA, meaning SPEAK, like Correio da Manha reported on 21 March 2008.

Maybe this was an attempt to induce/reinforce in the public's mind the idea of a connection with the eastern see, Madeleine was really abducted at the order of the eastern mafias who deal in human traffcking”.

We say, if some PdL walls could speak, the tales they would tell


(1) Forensic report for computer 814”:

“Date of Exam: 20/05/2007

Examiner’s Identity: Esp. Adj. Pedro Mauricio

Object under examination: 1 Hard Drive 2.5 of “SEAGATE” brand, model “ST94011A”, type ATA/IDE and with serial number or reference 3KW36PHA

State of conservation and operation: GOOD
Operating System installed on the computer hardware examined: MS Windows
Date of last use/access to the content of the computer hardware examined: 15/05/07 10:42:32
Attached documents resulting from the forensic examination:
- BIOS information, as DOC 1
- Technical characteristics and Tree graphic of content, as DOC 2
- List of installed programs, as DOC 3
- List with references to the keyword “swing”, as DOC 4
- List of usb devices connecting registry, as DOC 5

After carrying out the examination, the examiner stated:
He was given 1 (one) laptop of "inSystems" brand and serial number "E1218543", with the above identified hard drive, which, after analysis allowed the extraction of the following data:
1. The data regarding the BIOS was printed out, as in DOC 1, having been confirmed through the website on the internet that the date and time of the equipment identified above were equal to the date and time indicated on that site.
2. The directory structure, technical data relating to logical volumes (partitions) and operating systems found were printed out, as in DOC 2.
3. The installed programs in the operating system was listed, as in DOC 3.
4. An automatic search for the following keywords was done: "Madel (ale) ine", "Maddie", "Lolita", "swing", "sophie", "pedo", "Robert" and "Murat", which produced results for the keyword "swing", as in DOC 4.
5. The usb devices connections registry were listed, as in DOC 5.
6. No files were found relating to "sexual abuse of minors."
In conclusion, after appreciating all gathered elements, the examiner declares that the computer hardware examined hardware doesn’t permit the suitability for the undertaking of the facts under investigation in the process to which this examination relates.
And saying no more, this statement was made for the record and will be duly signed.”

(2) Forensic report for computer 904”:

“Date of Exam: 20/05/2007

Examiner’s Identity: Esp. Sup Isabel Marques

Object under examination: 1 Hard Drive 2.5”, serial number “3KW5JGZ7”, type ATA/IDE

Condition and operation: GOOD
Date of last use/access to the content of computer hardware examined: 14/10/06 21:08:57
Attached documents resulting from the forensic examination:
- Technical characteristics and Tree graphic of content, as DOC 1
- List of installed programs, as DOC 1
- Files found under requirements and extracted to this Police’s digital media as DOC 2
- Mail files extracted under requirements extracted to computer to this Police’s digital media (DVD), as DOC 3 with reference: DOC 3, sealed in this GT1 by the examiner, on May 20, 2007.
- List of “USB” connections, printed as per requirements, as DOC 4.

After carrying out the examination, the examiner stated:
She was given the following material:
1 (one) abovementioned hard drive, brand “Seagate”, model "ST94019A" with the capacity of 40 GB
The above-mentioned hard disk was analysed by forensic tools and it was verified that it was turned off the last time, using the operating system, on 14/10/06, as shown in DOC 1.
Using the same tools, automatic searches were done for the following "keywords": "Madd", "Maddie", "Madeleine", "swing", "Sophie", "Lolita", "kid", "Sergei" "Sergey", "Malinka", "Murat", "package" and "pacote".
There weren’t found movies, sounds and images related to sexual abuse of minors, or "bestiality", or images similar to Madeleine.
It was found that some searches for "keywords" were referenced in files, which in turn were extracted to digital media (CD), thus constituting DOC 2.
Also part of the DOC 2, are the technical reports relative to the extracted files. These are in a directory called "Technical Report" and the subdirectories correspond to the "keyword" with the same name.
E-mail was extracted to digital media (DVD), as references the "keywords"since the were found, and the correspondent technical report was printed, as in DOC 3.
It was made up and printed, a list of connections of "USB" devices, to this digital media, as written in DOC 4.
In conclusion, after appreciating all the elements gathered, the examiner states that the content of the examined hardware doesn’t permit the suitability for the undertaking of the facts under investigation in the process to which this examination relates.
And saying no more, this statement was made for the record and will be duly signed.”


  1. Just thinking about Malinka's computer being seized without him being declared arguido. Malinko was heard as a witness. Can a witness have things seized even if signing an authorization?
    Could it be because it was on RMs property? Why would it be there?
    How do you tell who a computer actually belongs to?
    If a number of people use it, how does one identify the owner?

    1. Of course they can - police can get a warrant to search if they think there might be evidence on there. You can tell who has administrator rights on a computer - they are usually the owner.

      What is the point of this post - nothing suspicious was ever found and Malinka was never charged with anything.

  2. There was a scurry of activity at JH this morning as soon as your blog was highlighted. Almost as if everyone was waiting for your post to arrive... how surprising

    1. Anonymous4 Apr 2014 12:46:00

      Be it at JH or be it anywhere else, Friday for the good-hearted is the day before the weekend, a pleasant time we hope to compliment with our words, while for the others, well... it's Textusa post day.

      Again, to be clear, we have no reason to complain about JH as a forum. Posters commenting for us, against us, or not commenting about us at all, are expressing their individual opinion which is a right we respect and endorse.

      The forum, as far as we can see, only moderates against abuse, which we also respect and endorse.

      This post, for example, wouldn't have been possible if it wasn't for JH. We could say we knew this all along but the truth is we didn't.

      For some people, to move away from neglect is a bit like deciding your religious belief has gone. You can't decide that without deep thinking.

    2. Do you expect everyone on JH to stop what they were doing and start talking about textusa's post?

  3. There is absolutely nothing of value in this post.

    Malinka was nothing to do with the McCanns, the multiple searches you refer to seem in fact to be a single search returning multiple thumbnail images. It was hardly surprising that ''swinging'' would be a search term, the jungle drums were already in full flow

    The McCanns did not fly from Coventry airport, they flew from East Midlands

    The fact that some people in a small town knew other people in a small town is hardly a surprise.

    I really do not know why you bothered to write this post - it contains nothing of any interest

  4. There seems to be some confusion on other bags handed in to PJ.
    Nancy Burridge and Daniel J Keown handed in bags of clothing and these are in PJ files.
    The description was of a bag containing jeans, shower curtain... was reported in the press, but is not recorded in PJ files. Inspector Teresa Almeida, in correspondence with Interpol described it as a media invention.
    But it certainly sounded like a warning to someone

  5. Gerry's blog: he returns to UK on Sunday May 20th to COVENTRY airport.
    Whilst their return flight would be cancelled, wouldn't a new ticket issued be to return to the airport he flew from originally?

    1. Why would you assume this?

      They flew out from East Midlands Airport. God knows what all that stuff was about steps rather than sky bridge - depends on the aircraft as much as the airport. They would have boarded by steps at East Midlands too.

      He probably flew to Coventry because there was a convenient flight. The two airports are not that far apart. You are trying to read something into nothing

    2. Belfast Telegraph 10/9/07
      "If the beach holiday had run its natural course, they would have returned on. Thompson's flight to COVENTRY months ago."

    3. Swinging
      Thompson Fly

      What did Kate say about 3 coincidences? No longer coincidences.

    4. They flew from East Midlands

      “Okay. And where did you fly from?”

      “Erm, East Midlands”.

      “And who was on the flight?”

      “Erm, we flew, we organised, erm, our own flights, because obviously Matt and Rachael and Jane and Russell are South and nearer London and the actual MARK WARNER flights were from London, we felt, with our children being the age they were and the flight times it was just going to be a nightmare, erm, getting up, you know, really early in the morning and getting down to London, so we opted to organise our own flights from, you know, our regional Airport.

      It's perfectly possible they had booked return flights to Coventry. The distance was about the same and they had gone by taxi. So what? It makes not a blind bit of difference.

    5. The flights in PJ Files for Gerry and Paynes are all ww5531, nothing at all for DW.
      Kate is ww5532, Maddie ww5533, Sean ww5534 and Amelie ww5535
      This is the flight number and links to E Midlands, but this means 5 different flights or this is a bogus schedule.

    6. Leicester Mercury 26/4/08 "Where is she? Who took out beautiful girl?"
      "On Saturday 28th of April 2007, bmibaby flight ww5532 took off from E Midlands to Faro at 9.47am...

      (;Kate's was the only flight in PJ files with this flight number.)

    7. Anon 20:28
      I read, I think in JH, that the discrepancies were attributed to Excel spreadsheet quirks but that doesn't explain why Gerry and the Paynes have the same flight number (if quirk then all should be sequenced numbers) and doesn't account for DW not being on the flight list.

    8. DW disagreed with G’s statement about the use of taxis, car seats for kids and more when ‘they’ arrived at Faro so my guess is she didn’t travel with them.

    9. Bizarre suggestion that they went from E Midlands but booked return to Coventry! I don't think no-frills airlines work like that.

    10. Anon 20:56
      But why does DW appear on the airport bus at Faro with the others?

    11. 3 possibilities:
      -that footage isn't from the Luz 2007 holiday
      -the flight numbers are made up
      I say both.

    12. Maybe DW booked separately on the flight and because she was staying somewhere else, she didn't appear on the MW flight listings as she wasn't a MW guest?

  6. ''Bizarre suggestion that they went from E Midlands but booked return to Coventry! I don't think no-frills airlines work like that''

    Of course they do. What are you on about? Each journey can be booked with different carriers. It's not really the issue, anyway. The claim was that they flew from Coventry and they didn't

    What, in any case, does it have to do with these claims about swinging?

    1. Keyword “swing” shows PJ interested in swinging in this case
      Murat’s (or Malinka’s) computer shows up file containing ref to swinging
      File is in a directory named Thomsonfly
      Means Thomsonfly and swinging have a connection in that computer
      I fail to see what is NOT important in this post

      Thomsonfly flies out of Coventry to Faro
      Textusa makes a guess that T9 flew out of Coventry and not East Midlands
      Comments I read show that Textusa wasn’t guessing, so many the discrepancies about outgoing flight.
      Coventry mentioned by a paper about McCann's return flight.
      A holiday package is whole and always includes the return trip. McCann's was cancelled for obvious reasons (I guess excpetions are MADE to anyone who claims that their child has been abducted and that is in the news all over the world).
      I see clearly a connection between swinging-Coventry-Thomsonfly

    2. Sorry, forgot to mention the most important element: Maddie
      Last line in my previous comment should read:
      I see clearly a connection between Maddie-swinging-Coventry-Thomsonfly

    3. Keyword ''swing'' shows it was one of the search terms. Malinka had nothing to do with any of the tapasniks.
      The file may simply contain the word swing, without them finding the specific reference in the file it is meaningless - all the following would trigger it too: Swings and roundabouts, swing door, swing bin, swing music. It is just a search for the word.

      Finding a file called ''Thompsonfly'' on the computer of someone resident in the algarve is not unusual, they fly to Faro.

      Textusa's guess is wrong., they did not fly from Coventry
      So what it was mentioned in a paper - big deal!
      The McCanns did not take the flights offered by Mark Warner, as they were inconvenient

      Really, these were two trawls of computers which produced absolutely nothing of any relevance, If you think you can see a connection it is because you want to

      Complete nonsense

    4. Why would anyone store files with "Swings and roundabouts, swing door, swing bin, swing music" on a directory called thomsonfly?
      Just google thomsonfly

    5. You clearly don't understand. The point is, any use of the word ''swing'' would trigger a hit, even if it was used in the most innocuous sense.

      Do you not think if they had found anything relevant in the file they would have mentioned it?

  7. 21.45 Why did the Belfast Telegraph report they used Thompson flights from Coventry?

    1. Who knows - wouldn't be the first time a paper got something wrong.

      They flew from East Midlands

  8. I've never heard of a package holiday where the party leaves from one airport and returns to another! Only if you booked independently would you do that.

    1. Package are exactly that! A WHOLE package, flights, accommodation, half board, coach from the airport to accommodation and back....NO choice!

    2. They WERE booked independently. This is in the files - the Mark Warner flights were not convenient

    3. No, they booked their flights separately. this is in the files, you should know this

  9. About the purpose of this post, as always, we will let readers judge that by themselves.

    1. It's completely pointless. All you have shown is that ''swing'' was one of the search terms and it turned up nothing. And anyone who has read the files knows that anyway.

  10. Well, now we know where former PJ inspector Barra da Costa got his information on swinging, and why he talked about it on tv (which almost left him in a pickle!) ...I bet he got the info from the PJ investigation, a tip from some contact he had/has in the PJ, his former colleague(s), and felt safe to mention it, well, it was in the process, it was part of the investigation, no reason to fear getting in trouble if it was mentioned.

    A small detail that caught my eye, maybe it's nothing, but...
    Marina Castela...related to the taxi-driver Castela, who claims he had Madeleine in his taxi on the night of the 3rd May, with a Murat and a Kate lookalikes?

    1. Anon 4 Apr 2014 23:25:00,
      Taxi driver from Vila Real. Wife Gloria so not husband of Maria.
      Said to be one of 38 POI to SY.

  11. Anon 4 Apr 2014 19:51:00

    Erm... are we now to ...erm... believe in who ...erm... says that ...erm... Maddie was ...erm... abducted?
    It shouldn't make a difference if it was E Midlands or Coventry but after seeing you getting all worked up over this, I'm starrting to wonder. I think Textusa and her team should look into this!

    1. If you had actually read my post you would see I said at the end ''So what? It makes not a blind bit of difference''

      The person you want to have a word with is the one earlier who seemed to think it was important.

      And I used that quote as an example - are you trying to make out the police are stupid? They have copies of their luggage receipts from that flight, they have access to the passenger manifests - seems you are another one trying to have a go at Mr Amaral. Or maybe you're Kate, eh?

    2. Thank you for the reply
      Could you please direct me to where in the PJ Files are those luggage receipts or passenger manifests?
      I hope that this time PJ does look into those passenger manifests and checks out if East Midlands are real. Your concern for them tells me they're not.
      All Textusa has written is worth being looked over by PJ.
      No, I'm not Kate and I'll be waiting for your reply

    3. I didn't say the passenger manifests were in the files, I said Mr Amaral would have access to them.

      You'll have to either find the luggage tags yourself or wait, I can't access them from here. If you had read the files, you would have seen them. Shame you haven't bothered. The police have no doubt they flew from East Midlands, so this is you calling Mr Amaral stupid again, is it?

      You should have plenty of time now you're not working, eh?

    4. For anon @ 12:16

      Luggage tags

      Clearly showing the originating airport as EMA - East Midlands Airport

      Luggage manifest for the return trip

      Cleary showing they flew in from East Midlands Airport. The McCann return flights are listed as ''no show'' obviously, but the Payne's are still there and clearly show that the return flight was also to the East Midlands Airport, no reason to assume the McCanns would be any different, as they were returning to the same town.

      All this information is freely available in the files, and it would be a good idea if Textusa would check the files before sending people off on a fairytale, and if other posters could have a bit of courtesy. You in particular immediately assumed - quite wrongly - that as you so snidely expressed it ''Your concern for them tells me they're not.'' Well, clearly, you didn't have a clue, did you?

      It's very disappointing that someone like Textusa, who likes to think she is good at research, sent people off on a wild goose chase because of something read on a non-Madeleine forum years ago, without even bothering to check first. These documents are easily accessible and easily found. Instead of which, you were all running around making up stories. It's such a waste of time and effort

    5. Thank you the stubs. There is the date of 28Apr07. But there's also a 10/04/07 date there. Any explanation as to why this date?
      The other document is an excel spreadsheet. It proves nothing.

    6. The earlier date refers to an earlier flight taken by the family, by Ryanair, to Ireland, where they visited family at Easter, I believe. The flight was from East Midlands Airport to Derry. Have you never been on a plane? The airlines attach a tracking tag to your passport which links to your luggage. The tags from their previous trip were still on his passport

      The other document is an excel spreadsheet prepared by the PJ. If you are going to disbelieve the PJ then I really can't help you. Why are you so disrespectful to them? Do yout think they falsified documents? How ridiculous

      Your attitude is really poor. You don't bother or don't have the ability to do any research yourself, and then you look down your nose at those who do, and suggest, yet again, that the PJ are lying.

      I am a little sick and tired of your endless bashing of Mr Amaral, and your constant attempts to pretend he was stupid. You would rather believe a bit of gossip from some person on websleuths years ago who you have never heard of than Mr Amaral who was in charge of this case.
      What's your agenda, eh?

    7. Thanks for clearing that up. No disrespect to Mr Amaral, who was trying to do his job with his hands tied behind his back. If the UK authorities hadn't obstructed him, he could have solved this case.
      As you're saying the PJ constructed the spreadsheet, is it just a glitch in the spreadsheet which attributes different flight numbers to people in the same party?
      And could you explain why DW does not appear?

    8. No, go and do your own research if you want anything further. With respect, you have been spoonfed everything and done nothing but complain. Some of the information on the sheet is incorrect, but you would have to take it up with the PJ if you are that bothered. It's probably either an operator error or someone inadvertently assigned sequential numbers and didn't notice at the time. It makes no difference.

    9. The fact that DW doesn't appear in the spreadsheet doesn't make a difference?? Or was that also an operator error?

    10. Go and do your own research, timewaster

    11. I see you have no answer for DW not to appear on the excel sheet.

    12. No, it was suggested you go and do your own research

      I see you couldn't be bothered

    13. I continue to see you have no answer for DW not to appear on the excel sheet.
      If you say I will find the answer through research, it means that it lies somewhere in the files. Where?

  12. Independent today
    More evidence of police corruption
    Daniel Morgan's brother about Hogan-Howe.
    "I'm very worried about this because the Met's handling of this case has been so appalling. It needs public scrutiny; it does not need the Met to put its hands on this case."

    Letters to HH had received no response and Mr Morgan thinks the Met could be using a device to get hold of the case. This sounds familiar!

  13. The search term swing turned up nothing the PJ considered they could act upon, as there was nothing illegal to act upon, but it certainly turned up very interesting information.
    At the time, the relevance of swing to the holiday may not have been apparent. If the holiday was arranged for that purpose and involved a much wider group, then it may explain why a cover-up occurred. Those who claim swinging would have met with a shrug of the shoulders can't be serious. If a current Prime Minister said he/ she was a swinger, it would be the end of a career. There were some high profile people at the resort who also had careers to protect, beyond the immediate circle of the McCanns, who were escorted back to Rothley by Special Branch, rather than consoling relatives.

    1. What interesting informatin did it turn up? That Malinka had visited porn sites? That's all it turned up. Didn't turn up anything on the McCanns or the tapas or any wider group. And there was nothing of interest on Murat's, other than he shops at Ikea.

      Textusa, why are you letting this poster jump from porn on Malinka's computer to suggestions about the Prime Minister being a swinger? It's stupid and irresponsible

    2. Anonymous 5 Apr 2014 11:33:00

      Fail to see the jump you allege.

      Poster is referring clearly to damages swinging would have on a politician's career if assumed and/or discovered, which we agree with.

      Poster uses Prime Minister as a hypothetical example and does not imply in any way he may or not be a swinger.

    3. So why bring politicians into it at all? Why mention a Prime Minister in the same breath, even?

      The poster claimed that ''The search term swing turned up nothing the PJ considered they could act upon, as there was nothing illegal to act upon, but it certainly turned up very interesting information''

      No it didn't. It did not turn up any information of any relevance to Madeleine or the McCanns or the tapas

      It wasn't a case that it turned up something interesting, but it wasn't illegal

      They didn't turn up anything. End of story

    4. "So why bring politicians into it at all?"
      Because politicians ARE at the core of the cover-up.

  14. DO NOT PUBLISH Anon at 05 Apr 2014 10:32:00

    We discovered that Walkden hired the same car as the McCanns prior to the McCanns.

    We think we were the first to make this link but we did not make any connections with Freemasonry.

    For all we know, Gerry and Walkden could be Masons, but it has no bearing on the situation.

  15. A candidate in the Queensland election has been dumped after going to a swingers club:
    Hear him say to the cameras "I don't think it's appropriate behaviour..."
    Why? It isn't illegal and some say the public would just shrug it off...

  16. Just another one:
    "Children’s TV entertainers The Krankies have revealed their SORDID past as secret swingers."
    Sordid? Is that a good thing to be?
    1. morally ignoble or base; vile: sordid methods.
    2. meanly selfish, self-seeking, or mercenary.
    3. dirty or filthy.
    4. squalid; wretchedly poor and run-down: sordid housing.
    And why secret? It isn't illegal... bla bla bla...

    1. Great example of how the MSM can pull apart people who may have indulged in swinging. It's not illegal - but they couldn't care less. The McCanns and Tapas friends know this instinctively. Their careers were on the line if a HINT of swinging got out.

    2. Did you even look at the replies to that article online?

      The majority of people did not give a monkey's !

      And that's in the Mail, the most right wing, straight-laced paper in the world.

      Give over - no-one gives a stuff

    3. If no one 'gives a stuff' why is most swinging activity conducted with an air of discretion and secrecy. If no one 'gives a stuff' why do the MSM glory in exposing it? Obviously shaming people sells newspapers.

  17. I wish your little roving troublemaker would stop trying to stir up trouble on JH. Who the hell does she think she is?

  18. Textusa, stink bombers and clutterers are polluting the comments on here today!!!

  19. DO NOT PUBLISH anon at 05 Apr 2014 21:47:00,

    We will not feed any sort of conflict beween us and JH.

    We sometimes say critical things of other blogs, so we can't be too surprised if they retaliate on occasion. If they criticise us with the same spirit and intention as we do then the criticism is welcome.
    It's a fine line we always try to walk, trying to defend our true position without getting into a blog war, which is what the real BHs try to achieve.

    First, let’s clarify who we think are BH (a “WH” is a BH). The definition is very simple and straightforward: if you post information to DECEIVE, you’re a BH. If you do it while pretending to be “one of us” then you’re a “WH”. If you do it overtly, then you’re a BH. The keyword here is “DECEIVE”. A “WH” always has a clear INTENTION to mislead. Whoever doesn’t post with the intent to deceive or distract is NOT a BH/”WH”.

    There are those who are not BHs, people who, in our opinion, don't comprehend where we are coming from with our thinking. We are not attacking those who have a genuine if misguided belief in neglect. Difference of opinion is respected. We will give you an example: Tony Bennett. We believe our opinions differ. We believe he’s misguided about negligence and we believe that he thinks the same of us about we believing there was no negligence whatsoever. It’s then a fact that either we are wrong or he is. We think we don’t have to justify any further the respect we feel and have shown for the man, his struggle, his courage and, above all, his rectitude.

    Difference of opinion can never mean disrespect. Even with the McCanns themselves. We agree wholeheartedly that comments about their looks and gossipy stuff are nothing but distraction. And distraction is deceit.

    So, only if the “DECEIT” cap fits, should one wear it and if one doesn’t then our words are not offensive as they aren’t befitting.

    We have to tread a careful path which shows the BHs we know their game, without alienating those we seek to win over to our views.

    We don’t complain about STINK BOMBS. We have done our duty (according to ourselves, mind you) to expose the phenomenon. It was one known to all, we just gave it a name and did our best to define it. If, where, how they get thrown about outside our blog doesn’t respect us.

    But in the long run, the most important thing is to make it harder for the police to cover things up by exposing what we know. We are NOT fighting against BH/”WH”. We are fighting FOR the truth.

    We, like all, fight for the truth as we see it. We try to always substantiate our opinions. We do not speak in riddles. All our posts may be long and detailed but are objective.

    We are under very close scrutiny. That’s why our posts are detailed and long. It’s not enough for us to say that white is white. We have to explain first the obvious, why white is white in the first place. You have witnessed how the BH will do their best to exploit any minor flaw in whatever we present. Fortunately, there haven’t been many and that’s why they resort to personal insult. And those that have been, we have corrected our hand.

    We are not afraid to be contradicted. We have published every single comment that has contained fact that contradicts the content of posts. You haven’t read many because there haven’t been many. We will always stand corrected whenever that is the case.


  20. cont.

    We also like to progress. We find it very hard to understand how after all this time, people still fluctuate between theories. By this time, it would be expected that the information out there is sufficient enough for one to formulate an opinion as to what happened. The time to be in the middle ground has long passed. It’s like witnessing a kid who will only discuss primary school math after 3 or 4 years in high school.

    Believe in what you believe and defend what you believe seems, to us, reasonable
    Lastly, let us clarify that we don't mind people copying posts. Never have we prohibited. There was a period in which we put an app whereby the content of the post couldn’t be copied. It was not a question of prohibition but a question of respect. We are the first to believe that anything placed on the internet is immediately public and may be used by any but we are also the first to believe that credit is due where credit is due. We have never taken credit for something that wasn’t ours.

    Acknowledgment of source is nothing but a basic demonstration of respect and consideration. As well is not attributing to us things we haven’t said.

    It's not easy walking on a tightrope!

  21. Consider the following. You are a parent/ grandparent and the following people are outed as swingers.

    The class teacher, or
    The head teacher, or
    The head teachers in the area.

    Add the following
    The employing Local Authority were aware in each scenario.

    Or the following

    Your MP
    A number of MPs together
    The PM of the day (no, not DC! A hypothetical person)

    In which cases would
    • shoulders be shrugged
    • the press give hysterical coverage
    • heads roll/ which heads?

    One or a combination of above

  22. Textusa, far from my intention to fuel any inter-blogs fights but I saw this at JH and wished to share with your readers. This is from poster snifferdog who I think disagrees with your theory. But I would like to share the perception do have of swinging. Personally I don't agree with what poster has said. I think swinging is much more widespread in the UK than is let known and it attracts the upper class people.
    "Perhaps I am on the old fashioned side and not very "with it", but Textusa has mentioned on numerous occassions that swinging is an acceptable and harmless pastime between consenting adults. I beg to disagree, and I am very grateful my parents were not as it can ruin the close family unit that creates the ultimate healthy environment for children to grow up in. Satanists/Luciferians are known swingers AnD child molesters amongst other things. (I hasten to add I am NoT saying all swingers are satanists or child molesters), just that swinging is not necessarily a harmless pastime and may lead to other more harmful practices by association."
    I will understand if you don't publish. If you do, I mean no disrespect to the poster in question I just want to make the point that swinging is very heavily frowned upon by some.

    1. Anonymous 6 Apr 2014 13:27:00,

      It's a personal opinion and we respect that.

      Readers (and poster) know we disagree with the content. But we agree totally with the social stigma that swinging, if outed, brings.

      The comment illustrates perfectly why some call us prudes and others think we approve of satanic practices. We neither promote nor condemn but say live and let live.

      You forgot to ref the comment:

  23. Why would Murat's girlfriend (married to another man) have the number of a laundry worker?

    1. Why wouldn't she?

      So she has the number of another local woman in her phone - don't you have phone numbers for people you know?

      I can't see what you are getting at

    2. I’m getting at that Michaela has 2 very suspicious phone numbers, one is from Marina that turns out is also from a Tania and the other is from a laundry worker in the resort that happens to work under Marina/Tania who is Silvia but turns out to be Sonia.
      And Marina AKA Tania is on Michaela’s phone book and doesn’t know Murat.
      Yes, I imagine you don’t find all this strange. I do. There’s a closer connection between the Murat’s and Ocean Club than was shown. Why hide this?

    3. What a load of nonsense. Stop trying to squirm your way out of it

    4. Nonsense?
      Are you denying what is written? PJ says that one Sonia's number in Michaela's phonebook is the same one used by Silvia Cravinho, a laundry worker. Sonia and Silvia share the same number then and by coincidence it's on Michaela's phonebook.
      Same thing with a Tania and Marina Castela who seem to share a fixed line number (mobiles in Portugal start with a 9 and fixed lines with a 2) that also happens to be in Michaela's phonebook.
      Michaela has Marina's numbers both fixed and mobile.
      Marina Castela says "She saw the suspect, Robert Murat, for the first time on that day at about 12.30 when the witness went to meet GNR officers whom she cannot identify, to open the doors for them and speak to guests staying in apartments in block 6 " and "Given his behaviour, for a few minutes the witness thought that he belonged to one of the security forces, namely the PJ"
      Marina's both mobile and fixed numbers are on Robert Murat's girlfriends phonebook and she thinks he's PJ???
      Yes, it IS a load of nonsense.

    5. I think you need to calm yourself down a bit and work out what you think is amiss here

      A lot of these people lived in staff quarters, so it's perfectly possible some of the numbers are the same. And are you saying that just because someone's numbers are on Michaela's phone, they are automatically going to recognise her boyfriend? That's compltely ridiculous. I have numbers for people in my phone whose partners I have never met - why is that unusual?

      You are not making any sense at all

    6. Live in staff quarters? Shared cellphones? What next? They worked for a meal fro dawn to dusk on the fields for their slave masters? What a loathsome xenophobic thing to say.
      Where are these staff quarters located? Not a single employee mentions being there on the night Maddie disapperaed. They either say they're working or at home. Where did you come up with Ocean Club having staff sleeping quarters?
      And even if in your racist mind Ocean Club "slaved" their workers, why would Michaela have a "slave's" number on her cellphone? And why do you assume Silvia is part of the "lot of these people" who lived in staff quarters"?
      And in a small town like Praia da Luz, to have someone's fixed line and cellphone numbers means that their close acquaintances are known, visually at least, and to state the contrary is not to be serious.

    7. That is one of the post disgusting posts I have ever read on here. I suggest you get some help

    8. Same religion, same local town and don't know each other's spouses? yeah, right... pfff

  24. I'm sorry but I'm getting really confused reading the comments. The poster Insane is insinuating that poster who questions flights off East Midlands is Kate McCann. Could someone explain why? Why would Kate question East Midlands?

    1. You have to ask yourself why, when the information about where they flew from has always been in the files, anyone should suddenly want to make up a load of nonsense about it.

    2. Sorry, I think you misunderstood my question. I'm not doubting if the flights were from EM or not. My question is why you think a person questioning East Midlands can be Kate. That is what you think, right? Something I'm not getting made you think that, just trying to follow your logic. Surely it would be in her own interest that EM be confirmed, wouldn't it?

    3. And you have to ask yourself why someone would want to disrupt and have people looking in the wrong direction

    4. I have asked myself and came up with no answer and that's why I asked! Agree that Kate may profit from disruption in blogs. But what is the profit in disrupting in a issue that is not important, whether from Coventry or East Midlands? Why the distraction and why this specific distraction made you think the poster was Kate?

    5. Why don't you go and look at the fact that it is still disrupting?

    6. Sorry, not following. Who? Where?

    7. It's obviously Kate McCann or one of her minions trying to disrupt this blog

    8. I’m trying to understand why someone trying to confuse people from where the McCanns flew from, East Midlands or Coventry, would be Kate. I’m trying to understand your logic but we seem to be talking in circles. You accuse Kate of attacking what I think she should be defending and I’m trying to understand the reasons why you accuse her of that.
      Now you seem to defend what I thought you wanted to attack. You say that it’s Kate’s minions disrupting the blog but wouldn’t that be in your interest? The disruption of the blog? Why protect now what you seem to be against?
      I apologise but I’m just not following.

  25. What interests me most is the communication between Jennifer and the secretary of the OC director on May 12th. It shows a link between them which probably isn't surprising, given their age group and the fact both had lived for many years in PdL.
    The PJ seemed interested in it too.

  26. Sorry, off-topic comment:

    The Meco tragedy case is ARCHIVED!!!
    Once again justice has been denied, the hidden agenda(s) has won...another cover-up, strings pulled, coward judges, coward justice!
    (the DUX, the only surviver and suspect of putting his colleagues in harm's way, thus causing the tragedy, is the son of a high rank judge...)


    My poor Portugal, my poor portuguese people...what the hell was April 74 for...?

  27. In small towns the size of Luz everyone knows everyone so I don't see the the problem in the people listed having each others phone numbers and calling them! I'm sure Marina being the general housekeeper knew literally everyone in Luz. Her job is to have OC maintained so she has to stick her nose everywhere to get the best servces. Of course she knew Murat. She knew Fenn and every Brit who lived in Luz.


    Chloe Campbell is not Madeleine McCann!
    Perth : Australia | Apr 10, 2014 at 1:47 PM PDT
    By Chelsea Hoffman

    Chloe Campbell is the focus of a high profile search that has gripped media headlines on an international level. Of course, that's likely because of the inane comparisons being drawn between her case and the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. Chloe is a three-year-old child who was just recently reported missing by her family after they woke up to find her missing from her bed. The Australian child does bear somewhat of a resemblance to the long-missing British tot, but that resemblance is shared by every blonde-haired, blue-eyed child on the planet.

    Does this mean British tabloids are going to publicly huff-and-puff every time a blond girl goes missing? Madeleine McCann has become fodder for media sensationalism. This currently missing child likely doesn't have a thing to do with Maddie's case -- especially since it's across the planet on a different continent. The only thing that would make these comparisons any more pathetic would be if SY officials decided to "investigate" those imaginary connections. Anything to avoid looking at the two most suspicious people in the case, right?

    Hopefuly Chloe Campbell wasn't abducted by a stranger, but it is something that does in fact happen. Nonetheless, most children "abduction" (i.e., disappearances) are committed by family members and/or acquaintances. Have faith in investigators in Australia. They'll figure this out.


    Hunt for 'Australia's Maddie': Distraught father says three-year-old snatched while she slept in front of TV 'must have been taken by someone who knew the family'

    • Chloe Campbell was reported missing when her parents didn't find her in bed on Thursday morning
    • Father Garth believes she was taken by someone close to the family, saying: 'It's got to be someone who knows me'
    • Mother Tammy is 'an absolute mess' said close friends
    • Comparisons have been drawn to missing Brit Madeleine McCann
    • Police have been assisted by helicopters throughout today's search

    By Taylor Auerbach and Richard Shears
    Published: 07:09 GMT, 10 April 2014 | Updated: 21:57 GMT, 10 April 2014

    The father of a three-year-old girl still missing after after she was abducted from her home in remote southeast Queensland believes she was taken by someone who knows the family.

    Australian police are continuing the desperate search for Chloe Campbell, who was reported missing just before 7am on Thursday from her home on Ridgeway Street, Childers - a town of roughly 1,500 people.

    But Chloe's father Garth is adamant that his daughter was taken by someone who knows the family and is familiar with the layout of their home.

    'It's got to be someone who knows they got in, where she sleeps,' Mr Campbell told the Australian Associated Press. 'They knew she was sleeping in front of the TV.

    'I don't think there's any possible way she's wandered off. She wouldn't leave the yard by herself.'

    He said the family usually closed the windows of their Childers home at dusk each night to keep out mosquitoes, but he believes that one of the latches had not caught.

    'That's why we are blaming ourselves,' he said, fighting back tears.

    Police issued a 'child abduction alert' shortly after 9am on Thursday and requested the message be broadcast on local radios every 15 minutes.

    'She is wearing yellow pants with love hearts on them and a white-coloured shirt with butterflies and bees pictured on the front' it said.

    'Chloe could also be carrying a blue soft toy and a grey blanket.'

    The disappearance has already drawn comparisons with that of British toddler Madeleine McCann who went missing from her parents' apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal in May 2007. She was also three-years-old at the time.

    In Childers - roughly 50km south of Bundaberg - the desperate search continues as State Emergency Services volunteers join police in scouring the locale. A major alert for Chloe was also put out at all airports and sea ports.

    Mr Campbell said that while Chloe and her two older sisters, Janae, eight, and Britney, five, have their own room in the house, on Wednesday all three girls slept in the lounge.

    'When Janae woke to go to the toilet in the morning, Chloe wasn't in the lounge room,' he said. Janae, he said, had then thought that her younger sister had sneaked into her parents' room because she had not been well lately.

    'I hope someone that's taken her is looking after her - giving her brekky, lunch, I don't know - I don't know what to think,' he said. 'Maybe someone took her who can't have kids or something like that.'

    Melissa Small, a 'close family friend' of the Campbells, told News Corp the toddler's window was left open and that alarm bells were raised when her parents discovered she wasn't in her bed this morning.

    'The parents put the kids to bed last night. They went to sleep about one o’clock in the morning after watching TV. They have woken up at seven o’clock and (Chloe) was not in her bed,' she told reporters.


  30. (cont)

    'There’s a footprint on the roof of the car to get through to the window.

    'The window was open and her blanket and teddy bear, a grey blanket and a blue teddy bear, has been taken with her.'

    Ms Small referred to a car parked underneath Chloe's window which could have been used to access it. She described Chloe's mother Tammy as 'an absolute mess'.

    The missing girl is described as being Caucasian in appearance, 100cm tall, with fair shoulder-length hair.

    Searchers are currently door-knocking houses in the town and focusing their efforts on an area around the Childers showground.

    Local butcher Ken Gooden told MailOnline helicopters have been assisting with the mission since roughly 8am.

    He described the Campbells as 'a young family of three or four' who shop regularly in town.
    'It's just like anything, you just serve them and don't think about it until something like this happens,' he said.

    'It's crazy to think of what can happen in your own backyard. I hope she hasn't gone missing, I hope she's just wandered.'

    The case has also reminded locals of the tragic disappearance of four-year-old Eeva Dorendahl and her father Greg Hutchings. The duo went missing from Pottsville - on the Queensland/New South Wales border - in early January, with police discovering their bodies 17 days later.

    Their disappearance made international headlines as details of a custody dispute surrounding young Eeva came to light.

    Childers, where today's search for missing Chloe has intensified, was also in headlines around the world 14 years ago after the Childers Palace Backpackers Hostel went up in flames on June 23, 2000, killing 15 backpackers.

    Later Robert Long was arrested for starting the fire and charged with murder. He was sentenced to life in prison.

  31. It seems that for Chelsea Hoffman only for sightings can things that are "across the planet on a different continent" be related to Maddie!!!! Amazing.

  32. I bet the Mcs are dreading a possible outcome of family involvement in Autralian girl case.
    I notice respectable press and BBC avoiding it.

  33. Do not publish Anonymous at 13 Mar 2017, 10:16:00,

    Thank you but we already had found the ref to keywords you pointed out.

    Our research has shown it has no interest to the case, otherwise we would have used it.

  34. Fair enough. Any thoughts on that 2016 blog post in its own right? Thought it a little bit odd in context tbh. No worries if not. Of interst google trends showing significant MC google trend over the last few days - what with AG / Current investigation etc. See:

    1. Anonymous 13 Mar 2017, 15:03:00,

      The family you mention has stopped having any sort of connection with the company we speak of your do not publish comment.

      For that reason, whatever that company does, or did, and until established a valid connection, is private and so for us of no interest to the case.

  35. Many thanks for the reply. Though I dont believe any relavent connection is necessarily via the family. Afaik the current owners of the business may have some connection with the larger picture going by at least one prevous employee and some minor but odd choices of subject matter. I will keep digging.

  36. Can you tell us more about this? I'd like to find out some additional information.

    1. Anonymous 8 Jan 2018, 12:15:00

      It's an issue from a do not publish comment which we have clearly stated we don't consider relevant to the case, so we don't understand what addition to what information you would like to know.


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