Post Criticism

Unlike Black Hats would like you to believe, we, in this blog, do like to be questioned.

Valid criticism is always welcome, as it tests our understanding of things and provides a golden opportunity to change our vision on whatever subject is being subjected to it.

Also allows for us to consubstantiate our opinions, to and correct what is to be corrected, maintain what is not. The permanent and continuous testing of our beliefs is of the utmost importance, and that is only achieved by challenging them, which in this case, is obtained by criticism.

Done by oneself certainly, but also expected from you.

I found a comment, posted by docmac, in a thread at MMF, dedicated to the post superbly written by Sina J, “Hobie or not be? That is the question”.

As I thought that it raised some interesting points, I decided to give Sina J, an opportunity to respond. This is the comment:  

"Re: Hobie or not to be? That is the question/textusa  

docmac Wed 12 Jan at 10:44 pm 

I enjoy reading much of textusa's stuff. She certainly has an analytical mind and an eye for detail. However, there are inconsistencies in this article and the writer has obviously not fully read the rogatory interviews - Matt Oldfield's in particular. Below are but a few examples. 

Please do not view this as a criticism of textusa in this instance, as the article was not in fact written by her - the name of the author is quite clearly displayed at the top of the article, and textusa thanks the poster for her guest post in the first reply. 

First of all, reference is made to the doctors supposedly not referring to the type of craft used, specifically questioning whether they were 'Hobies' or 'Lasers'.  

“The Laser Pico is designed for simplicity and can be crewed by 2 children or 1 adult so we can assume this is not the craft the doctors had an incident with. So we are left with the Hobie, which is the craft for an experienced sailor and novice crew. In that case, it would be said “we took out a Hobie or even Hobie cat” but the doctors tell us they ‘did watersports’. Rather vague don’t you think?.” 

In fact Matt - the only experienced sailor in the group - does exactly this: “...they've got some (inaudible) cats, which are, erm, sort of sixteen foot long, but you ideally need, certainly in a breeze, you need two people to weight them down or they tend to turn over, so I'd always been trying to get him out on one of those and he sort of agreed to, erm, and he didn't have confidence in my sailing abilities, but, erm, he agreed to come on one of those and there was enough wind that lunchtime to actually do it. And so we went back down to the beach and took one of the cats out...” 

That sounds very much like a Hobie16 catamaran to me. May be wrong, but I doubt it. Next we see doubts expressed as to the following part of Dianne Webster's statement: “Dave I know was windsurfing in the afternoon, I’ve just got a picture of him walking out of the sea in his wetsuit.” 

The author wonders where this picture of David Payne might be. I believe 'picture' was used in a more figurative sense her, i.e. that she could still 'picture' him entering the water. The author further wonders what happened to the wetsuits:  

“according to Dianne, they go down to the beach, play around, Dianne takes pictures of David and of Russell and Matthew all in wetsuits, then the men come from the activities and all head for the Paraiso for high tea. When does the WET/DRY/CHANGE OF CLOTHES happen in this fairytale?”

 Again, in Matt's rogatory interview, he states: “Erm, by the time we'd got back in the, erm, the rest of the families were down on the beach, apart from Gerry and Kate and their kids, so it was Dave and Fiona and L*** and S******, erm, and Jane and E*** and E*** and they were playing on the beach. And so we sort of put the boat away, got changed and came over to them” 

Again, the writer states:  

“It’s typical of sports enthusiasts to use the terminology of their sport and the onlookers not to do that. None of the doctors name any of the craft they have purported to sail….why would that be? None of them mention going back to the apartment, having a shower or changing out of wetsuits, or puting away the wet kit in their statements”  

There are so many inconsistencies and lies to be found in the statements of this lot that it is often tempting to rush headlong into making assumptions after reading but a tiny extract of them. I've done this myself - hand on heart - but have always been ready to acknowledge that a mistake may have or has been made. This appears to me to be the case here."

Here is Sina J's response:

Dear Docmac,

You refer in your comment that I’ve some inconsistencies in my post. You may have found more, but you only refer three. First, the sailing experience, then Dianne Webster's photo of David Payne leaving the water, and lastly the changing of clothing. Let's look at each of them.

Sailing experience.

These are the crafts that were used by Mark Warner:
For Beginners & Intermediates - Dart 16 - Laser Bahia - Laser Stratos - Laser Pico - Laser Vago
For Intermediates and Advanced - Hobie Cat 15 - Vago - RS Vision - Laser 1 - Laser XD

When Matt says “...they've got some (inaudible) cats, which are, erm, sort of sixteen foot long”, and from whose words you assume it to be a Hobie16 catamaran, I have to say that I think he's referring to a Hobie 15, as the Hobie 16 is 17 feet long, and, as we can see, not available at MW.

But you’re not the one in judgment here. You’ve rightfully expressed your opinion, which I respect it, as I respect the fact that you did do it in another place other than this blog, where, I think, would have been the right place to question it.

What is being questioned is Matt’s sailing experience, and the near-drowning incident that he was allegedly involved with Rob.

Besides the Tapas saying so, we don’t really know how experienced a sailor Matt really is, and it’s not the simple fact that he says “cats” that makes him one. As you’ll see, it appears to me that he’s much more a beholder of indoctrinated experience rather than having a real one. But that is my opinion, and opinions are subjective and I’ll let the readers decide for themselves.

When Matt uses the term “cat”, my experience is that people use the term “Hobie” or “Hobie cat” and I’ve never heard just “cat”. I feel using the word "cat" is touching on the use of lingo but in MY experience all the sailors called them Hobies.

BUT my only experience of these crafts is a watersports holiday and not at a club maybe like you might have, docmac, as you appear to be a person with some sailing experience. If you don't, I apologise for assuming such fact.

But continuing, I'm not saying that it isn’t used, and maybe some people do, I just haven’t heard it, but it's the people from clubs are the ones who go on this type of holiday.

As I said it is not the use of the term “cat” to define a Hobie Cat 15, that determines Matt’s experience. Nor when he says, implying an unfulfilled wish, "I'd really like to sail" instead of “I like sailing xxxx” that one would the expect from an experienced sailor:

“And I'd been, we'd been down to the beach a couple of times before but we'd end up going canoeing and I'd always wanted to go sailing because the boats that I'd really like to sail are the big catamarans”

One would expect such wishful thinking from the least experienced sailor Russell O’Brien.

But let’s return to the type of crafts as it’s relevant in terms of the experience of the person sailing it. Hobie 15 “The School”, with its original design, the huge hull volume, has become a reference in institutional off the beach sailing and has been chosen by a great number of sailing schools and leisure operators such as Club Med, Club Adriana, Club Robinson, Sunsail, UPCA, VDWS…

The huge volume of the hulls ensures buoyancy and safety.

The Hobie 16 is used for racing and one notable flaw is the tendency of the boat to “pitchpole” when running downwind, the sail plan and distribution of the floatation of the hulls is such that it can push the bows down far enough to dip them under the water, stopping the front of the boat and leading to a cartwheel or summersault and subsequent capsize of the boat.

The Hobie 16 is not the ideal craft for staff that is responsible for looking after their clients.

As MW advertise, they used the Hobie 15 as it would seem the best type to use for a range of sailors considering different levels of experience.  

Rob says “Well we, me and Matt had gone down to the beach to go on, as I say, Matt’s a good, quite a good sailor and we took one of the, the, erm, the catamarans out. So we’d gone down, erm, just after lunch, probably after the kids had gone back to the Kids Club, so two, two o’clock, two or three o’clock, and had quite a long sail, erm, we were out for a long time, Matt sailed for a bit and then I sailed for a bit and he kind of gave me a bit of a lesson really. Erm, as I said, he, he got bounced overboard and the kind of wire snapped and I had to learn quite quickly how to turn a catamaran round and not run someone over in the water with it. So we pick, you know, we picked him back up, erm, a boat came back out and repaired, you know, kind of repaired the, the bit that had snapped, erm, it was the harness.”

As I said, safety is paramount and all customers are monitored closely so the staff would know exactly who was on the water, the craft they were using and their experience.

There would be a RIB on the outer perimeter in radio contact with other staff. The Portuguese Navy is very rigorous in this matter, and the fact that you own a boat DOES NOT entitle you to just put yourself in it and sail out.

You have to have the adequate qualifications or be supervised by someone who has. From Rob’s words we now know that the ‘incident’ was monitored by the safety boat, therefore where was booking reference and where is the incident report?

Then, we also know that there was repair done out at sea by the safety boat, one supposes, but how one has to wonder. Do safety-boats bring along repair parts with them, or, as they should, are there to protect the safety of the sailors?

Also, when the boat was handed back, surely the damage must have been reported to the owner. You don't return a rented item that you've damaged and just walk away. No sign of such report, and no sign of wasting anytime reporting it.

 To be noticed at this point is the sailing abilities of a novice in handling a craft that, as we’ve seen, is for “Intermediates and Advanced” .

More from Rob: “Reply - I think I booked into Water Sports on the Saturday at this meeting at the Tapas, I think that’s where you made your bookings, it possibly may have been on the Sunday, I’m not entirely sure there, but, erm”.

How VAGUE is this? We have the holiday reviews which clearly state that daily water sport bookings were taken at breakfast at the Millennium, not at Tapas.  

"1578 “So the booking for Water Sports?” 

Reply “May have been on the Saturday at the Tapas, it could have possibly been on, at a separate meeting on the Sunday, I’m not entirely sure whether there was one, one introductory meeting where everything happened including some of your bookings for what you wanted to do or whether there was a separate one on the Sunday. But, erm, but just the way, the way this reads it implies that I had wind surfing lessons that day, but actually, erm, there was no water, I don’t think there was anything in terms, in terms of lessons down at the waterfront until the Monday”. 

1578 “’I can’t recall exactly what I did on that day’ it should read, shouldn’t it?” 

Reply “On that day, yeah. Erm, but ‘I’d agreed to have wind surfing lessons and do a bit of sailing’ shall we say ‘Monday through Thursday’, we add ‘Monday through Thursday’, because we certainly didn’t do that, I think the Sunday was sort of a, a relative day off for, erm, for the staff, staff work weekends as well well certainly with the, you know, for the staff at the beach I think. I think the rest of it’s fine. I don’t, I really can’t recall an awful lot about the Sunday, I think we probably just had a bit of a look round, a trip to the beach. I’ve got a vague idea I, that you may have been able to still hire the kayaks, so I think I might have had a go on one of them,”

Let's overlook the fact the Police tells what a witness means to say. Where are these booking statements? If they existed the staff would know him and have to arrange instruction or assessment, and by the way, in the tourism business, there is such no thing as a week-end.  

Saturdays and Sundays are usually the most busy days, as those on holiday are joined by those on weekends looking for leisure.

Yes, they do rest, but that’s usually called the “day-off”.

We now see, from these statements that the staff knew these people and had spent time making sure they knew how to handle the craft. (Could it be possible the staff knew these people in the UK so knew their capabilities? Witnesses coerced?).

Now, one must wonder who really is the experienced sailor. Matt’s sailor lingo seems not to match up with the experience, Rob is the one that says that he reserves the watersports, and not the experienced sailor, and lastly, when Rob says that “I had to learn quite quickly how to turn a catamaran round and not run someone over in the water with it”, when supposedly they were a mile out to sea, where, we’re supposing, the sailing “traffic” wouldn't be that intense, and hardly anyone to run over, seems more like an experienced sailor describing what, if he were a novice, he would do, as safety of others is key factor in sailing. It runs in their blood.

I don’t think a real novice would be worried in hitting someone in the head, but would be concentrating all his efforts in maintaining minimum control of the craft until help arrived.  

Matt says “....took one of the cats out and we were out a bit longer than expected because part of the boat's strapping fell off and I fell off the back and so we got sort of stranded in the water and he didn't really know how to sail but managed to bring the boat round and I was sort of like a mile from shore thinking I'm going to have to swim all the way back.”

Normally one falls off the side of a boat and not the back.

Would an experienced sailor think of swimming back a mile, when he knows that safety boats patrol the area, and keep a look out? I say NO WAY.

I say he would try to maintain contact with his novice friend, instructing him the best way possible, helping him in all possible ways, until the safety boat arrived.

I think it should be considered that Russell might be more experienced than Matt. Russell is a friend of James Gorrod who is a watersports coach and CD of Surfers against sewage.  

Mr Gorrod lives in Exeter and was on holiday at the same time as T9.

Anyhow, I don’t think, docmac, I really don’t think I was inconsistent in my post on this issue. The pronunciation of one lingo word, doesn’t make one a pro, and there seems some indications that the gentleman in question, Matt, may not be as experienced as he would like us to believe he is. Why this role reversal?

Dianne Webster's photo.

Let’s use her words: “Yeah, again I’ve got a photograph of them on the beach after that” This is she speaking about Rob and Matt, but the “again” clearly states a repetition of action.

A picture is a picture... the expression to be used, in case she intended to use it as you suggest, then would be more like "…I still have the image of...", or "… I’ve got this picture in my mind…". The words “again” and “photograph” are quite sufficient to clarify this non-inconsistency, I think, and hope you agree, docmac.

The wetsuits.

Rob, in his own words, has booked watersports activities for most of the week, so is NOT a random whim. It’s a clear intent. They did not just stroll by the beach, saw the boats, and said, hey, let’s sail!  

He says he booked at MW right after they arrived. This, in my view, means they would hardly book a watersports holiday with the intention of sailing and windsurfing without taking their own kit. In which case they would have kit bags (not Tesco carrier bags) in which to put the suits after dripping.

Again from experience, wetsuits are important pieces of kit. In all their statements they deny taking any.

What I did really forget to mention is when you come from the water and hang your suit up to drip, you would normally leave it for a while before going back to collect it. Or the other thing is to wear it for a while until it's dry enough to pack it away...in a bag, one that is big enough to take a man size suit.  

Matt looks very tall and that photo looks like 2 men of the same height. I just don't believe any of these doctors would dream of wearing borrowed wetsuits (people do pee in them) when they would have their own kit.

I just think it wouldn't happen, as I think they have made a big mistake with this whole thing saying they didn't take any equipment with them.

When I did this sort of holiday, in the room I would put on my swimming costume and then put my wetsuit on like shorts leaving the top hanging loose then put a T shirt on top to walk down to the beach.

I didn't take clothes with me. After skiing I would stand under the shower to rinse the salt off the suit then take it off, hang it up to dry then put the T shirt back on over the swimsuit and go back to the room to shower properly.

Wet wetsuits are like sponges so need to drip for a while before putting them in a bag. The bag then has to be taken somewhere. And you can imagine what happens if you put a wet wetsuit on the sand?  

No-one says they had to take kit or bags back to the apartment.

I would like to know if anyone saw any wetsuits hanging out to dry on any of the balconies on any of the days?

We haven’t seen any evidence that there are showering and changing facilities on the beach. There's this Beach Hut, that seems more into spur of the moment kind of water fun such as flyfish, bananas and ringos, that sort of thing, but also caters sailing, winsurf and kayaking.

No mention of wetsuit rental, but that doesn't mean it hasn't:
 
We can now see Beach Hut provides the watersports now (presumably previously used by MW?) but the hut does not look like a shower block, a place fully equipped for showers and changing clothes. Or left stored there while they were at Paraiso.

And would one book a boat at MW, and the wetsuit down at the beach? Is there ANY logic in that?

But let’s hear Rob on this particular subject:  

“Reply ’Matt and I went kayaking’. I think Dave came, yeah, maybe even Dave came as well. There was, there was several on one occasion, the three, the three of us”. 

1578 “’Kayaking, possibly with Dave’?” 

Reply “Possibly, but certainly with Matt and maybe, erm, ‘with Matt and possibly also Dave’. There was one, there was one occasion when the three of us took the kayaks out. And then we came back to the shore and by the time we got back to the shore, and I think we’d noticed for some time before that the, a lot of the others had congregated down on the beach and were down by the, by the waterfront, pretty much at the end of the, the boardwalk from the Paradiso Restaurant. 
So me and Matt got, dropped the boat off, came over, erm, lots of general laughter about Matt’s near death experience and, erm, I trying to, you know, play up the glory as much as possible of course. Erm, the kids were playing there, erm, this was, I would imagine would be, you know, quarter past four, half four time, erm, when we probably finished sailing. Erm, went for a swim."

 So, were they on kayaks or were they on “cats”?!?

Can't these people just for ONE time make up their minds on what they did?!?

Did Matt fall off the back of a kayak?

Anyhow, even kayaking would still be watched on the water for safety reasons, and any accident reported. 

But the big question here is: when does Rob swim? Clearly it’s after sailing, and Matt says, like you say he does “And so we sort of put the boat away, got changed and came over to them”, so apparently, for the two statements to make sense, Rob, sailed, got out of his wetsuit (we still don’t know where they left it or where they took them), put’s on dry clothes, “comes over”, then changes back into swimming trunks, or the same wetsuit, takes a swim, and then changes back again into dry clothes, as appears as dry as if he never has been in water the whole day at Paraíso’s.

Oh, and somewhere in between he dashes off to pick up his daughter from the Creche.

The devil is in the detail, docmac.

Thank you for questioning me, it gave me an opportunity to solidify even further my belief that none of the Tapas did any watersports, in the afternoon of May 3rd.