It seems that by raising the mere possibility of Mrs Fenn having not exactly told the truth in her statement, I’ve committed an unforgivable crime against the elderly.
As far as I know, and as I’ve said before, a fact is what a fact is, and not because we’re told it is however nice it is said to us, how however innocent looking is the one who tells us.
Saying someone is lying just because they're lying is as invalid as saying someone is telling the truth, because they're telling the truth.
This is not a blog meant to be popular. With this I mean to say that I’m not writing for ratings.
Obviously I enjoy, and feel rewarded with the amount of readers I’m receiving. I do believe that I’m heading for the 80K figure, which was something unthinkable at the beginning of this year.
For that, as you know, I have Ironside to thank.
But it’s not for the readers that I write. I write in the name of what I see as truth. Let that be clear. Slandering my name, might result in weaker minds, but only strengthens my resolution. And that of those that have, are and will continue to help me. To them, my sincere thank you!
Mrs Fenn, if you like me to unveil a little, is just a person minding her own business on that “Train Station” on that fateful day. The train hit the station, and although she suffered no physical damage, she certainly didn’t come out of this unscathed.
All I can say at this point in time, is that if I were her, knowing what she knew then, either by my own interpretation and by what I'd been told, I would probably would have done the same as she did. Which doesn’t make it right, but the wrongness, as you’ll see, is much more upstream than this retired, and astute, lady.
I picked up the following on the Missing Madeleine Forum (MMF), which is not responsible for the opinion of some of its posters, and I’ve deleted most, basically those with interesting and relevant ideas, as well as those complimenting this blog, but you'll be able to read what type of “clutter-argumentation” that I’m up against.
Not complaining though, just enjoying their squirming, and, please, in the future, do not forget what these people say today:
Re: Textusa: All paths lead to Rome
T4two on Mon 22 Nov 2010, 3:17 am
"Dimsie wrote: Mrs Fenn had no reason to lie AFAIK and I for one don't think she did. I see nothing odd about her not doing anything about the child crying and calling for her daddy, but then asking what was wrong when she heard a woman screaming hysterically.
Children often cry and yell and I imagine Mrs Fenn may have thought it was something of a tantrum on the child's part, rather than the cries of a child in pain, and therefore put off doing anything because she hoped the parents would arrive and that would be an end to it.
Which is more or less what happened; somebody arrived and the noise ceased (or died down). Textusa seems to think Mrs Fenn should then have tackled the parents - why on earth would she do this if she hadn't wanted to get involved at all?
She probably didn't want the parents to think she was accusing them of neglecting their children, after all they were only there on holiday and would soon be going home, it's not like they were her permanent neighbours.
Hearing an adult screaming, though, would be an unusual occurrence, prompting her to ask what was wrong. And Textusa is wrong when she says Kate only said 'We've let her down' at the Tapas bar.
Fiona Payne's rogatory statement makes it clear that Kate was still saying this back at the apartment, she specifically says she kept on saying it.
So for Textusa to say 'Either memory fails me, or she couldn’t have known this unless she had nice conversations, afterwards, in those 109 days and certainly over a nice cup of tea, with Kate.' is just silly; her memory may be failing her or she has simply not read FP's rogatory interview.
Claiming that for Mrs Fenn to know what Kate said means that she must have had 'a nice cup of tea with Kate' in the meantime is totally unfair - where is Textusa's proof of this?
As for who did what checking - how do we know anyone did any checking on any particular night or at what time?
Why should we be expected to believe all the stuff about checks every 30 minutes, just because that's what they said? Does anyone seriously believe these people stuck to a rigid timetable of half hour checks?
Another thing - anyone else who might have heard a child crying as they walked past the apartments might just have thought 'Oh, a child crying' and gone on. Unless they stood there for some time how would they know the child kept on crying for so long? Children do cry and yell, but a passer-by is hardly going to pay much attention to that.
In any case, didn't Gerry McCann and some of the others say there were seldom many people around at that time of night?
Plus although to Mrs Fenn the crying and yelling probably sounded like there was no let-up, that doesn't mean it went on at the same volume without Madeleine stopping to draw breath.
I've been talking to a friend on the phone at times while her toddler yelled and screamed in a tantrum in the background; he'd quieten down and we'd breathe a sigh of relief thinking that was it, then he'd start up again - that's normal behaviour and that's what Madeleine could well have been doing (not necessarily a tantrum, but stopping and starting).
If so, someone going past may have heard nothing at all. Textusa seems to have a bee in her bonnet about Mrs Fenn, but IMO it's never a good idea to let your imagination run away with you."
Agree 100%. Lay off Mrs Fenn and concentrate on plausible theories.
Re: Textusa: All paths lead to Rome
T4two on Mon 22 Nov 2010, 2:25 pm
Mrs Fenn was quietly enjoying her retirement when it was rudely interrupted by the arrival of the neighbours from hell in the apartment below.
From the moment they arrived the screaming and shouting of the parents, children crying and frequent banging of doors, only stopped in the mornings after the final slamming of the front door and the strident voices proclaiming "feckin' this" and "feckin' that", had receded into the distance. The old lady would breath a sigh of relief.
With the kids in the creche and the parents at the tennis courts, she could enjoy the luxury of a couple of hours peace and quiet at least.
In the evenings the procedure seemed to repeat itself, except that this time there was no slamming of the front door to signal an end to the disturbance, but she could hear the patio door scraping and footsteps receding from the other side of the apartment, which indicated to her that they had left by that route.
If she turned down the TV and listened very carefully, she could make out intermittent sobbing and sniffling noises from the apartment below, as the children cried themselves to sleep.
One night no matter how loud she turned up the TV it was just impossible not to hear the plaintive crying from the apartment below. Mrs Fenn didn't know what to do. Should she call the police or the Ocean Club and report it?
Not having had anything to do with the police ever before she decided against that course of action. Still, there was always the Ocean Club, but what was the telephone number? Where could she find it? In the directory of course but, it was night-time and she would have difficulty reading the small print under the artificial light even with her reading glasses and anyway to make things even more difficult, it was all in Portuguese.
Mrs Fenn agonized about what to do. The child had been crying for at least an hour now; she must do something, there could be something wrong, the child might need help. So Mrs Fenn rang her best friend and explained the situation.
"But if I call the Ocean Club", she said, "I'm afraid that it will cause a lot of bad feeling with the parents. I've already heard the father referring to me as 'that nosey old bag upstairs' and how he'd 'soon get her to keep her nose out of our business.' He's a very intimidating kind of person and so foul-mouthed, you'd never believe it."
Before her friend could answer she heard the scraping of the patio door from below realized that the crying had already stopped as if turned off by a switch.
"They're back", she wispered, "And the crying's stopped. I'll call you tomorrow."
Mrs Fenn replaced the receiver and set about retiring for the night. "Oh well, not to worry, it'll soon be the end of the week," she thought, "And the problem will resolve itself".
She pushed in the little yellow earplugs that her daughter had brought her a couple of days before and soon drifted off into a deep sleep, oblivious to the swearing and the scraping sounds of moving furniture emanating from the apartment below.
Re: Textusa: All paths lead to Rome
Popcorn on Mon 22 Nov 2010, 2:59 pm
Good post (and a rep point from me) T42. I think that's a far more plausible scenario than a bizarre and not terribly helpful double bluff in which Mrs Fenn - an apparent stranger - exaggerates the McCanns' negligence in an attempt to prove their innocence.
Re: Textusa: All paths lead to Rome
fedrules on Mon 22 Nov 2010, 3:10 pm
You write really well T4two and as others have said sum up Mrs Fenn's dilemma perfectly, especially the part about her reluctance about confronting a foul-mouthed, drunken doctor.. You aren't Mrs Fenn or her friend by any chance are you??
Re: Textusa: All paths lead to Rome
T4two on Mon 22 Nov 2010, 3:25 pm
"Popcorn wrote: Good post (and a rep point from me) T42. I think that's a far more plausible scenario than a bizarre and not terribly helpful double bluff in which Mrs Fenn - an apparent stranger - exaggerates the McCanns' negligence in an attempt to prove their innocence."
If one knows much at all about elderly people, then Mrs Fenn conforms to a common behavoural pattern. She probably has a natural middle-class aversion to having anything to do with the police; it's always associated with a scandal.
Fear of people who exhibit coarse and violent behaviour is a natural reaction of the elderly and as such vulnerable members of society, and simply not wanting to get involved is an attitude which strengthens with age.
If you connect these to the problems that the elderly have involving things which seem incredibly simple to younger people, such as reading a telephone directory at night for example, then her behaviour starts to make sense.
IMO she had to overcome so many barriers of this kind in her own mind before saying anything at all to the police; this is what makes her statement so absolutely believable, and so damning for the McCanns.
Re: Textusa: All paths lead to Rome
fedrules on Mon 22 Nov 2010, 3:33 pm
Popcorn wrote: Good post (and a rep point from me) T42. I think that's a far more plausible scenario than a bizarre and not terribly helpful double bluff in which Mrs Fenn - an apparent stranger - exaggerates the McCanns' negligence in an attempt to prove their innocence.
I agree the whole textusa scenario was very farfetched IMO.
As far as I know, and as I’ve said before, a fact is what a fact is, and not because we’re told it is however nice it is said to us, how however innocent looking is the one who tells us.
Saying someone is lying just because they're lying is as invalid as saying someone is telling the truth, because they're telling the truth.
This is not a blog meant to be popular. With this I mean to say that I’m not writing for ratings.
Obviously I enjoy, and feel rewarded with the amount of readers I’m receiving. I do believe that I’m heading for the 80K figure, which was something unthinkable at the beginning of this year.
For that, as you know, I have Ironside to thank.
But it’s not for the readers that I write. I write in the name of what I see as truth. Let that be clear. Slandering my name, might result in weaker minds, but only strengthens my resolution. And that of those that have, are and will continue to help me. To them, my sincere thank you!
Mrs Fenn, if you like me to unveil a little, is just a person minding her own business on that “Train Station” on that fateful day. The train hit the station, and although she suffered no physical damage, she certainly didn’t come out of this unscathed.
All I can say at this point in time, is that if I were her, knowing what she knew then, either by my own interpretation and by what I'd been told, I would probably would have done the same as she did. Which doesn’t make it right, but the wrongness, as you’ll see, is much more upstream than this retired, and astute, lady.
I picked up the following on the Missing Madeleine Forum (MMF), which is not responsible for the opinion of some of its posters, and I’ve deleted most, basically those with interesting and relevant ideas, as well as those complimenting this blog, but you'll be able to read what type of “clutter-argumentation” that I’m up against.
Not complaining though, just enjoying their squirming, and, please, in the future, do not forget what these people say today:
Re: Textusa: All paths lead to Rome
T4two on Mon 22 Nov 2010, 3:17 am
"Dimsie wrote: Mrs Fenn had no reason to lie AFAIK and I for one don't think she did. I see nothing odd about her not doing anything about the child crying and calling for her daddy, but then asking what was wrong when she heard a woman screaming hysterically.
Children often cry and yell and I imagine Mrs Fenn may have thought it was something of a tantrum on the child's part, rather than the cries of a child in pain, and therefore put off doing anything because she hoped the parents would arrive and that would be an end to it.
Which is more or less what happened; somebody arrived and the noise ceased (or died down). Textusa seems to think Mrs Fenn should then have tackled the parents - why on earth would she do this if she hadn't wanted to get involved at all?
She probably didn't want the parents to think she was accusing them of neglecting their children, after all they were only there on holiday and would soon be going home, it's not like they were her permanent neighbours.
Hearing an adult screaming, though, would be an unusual occurrence, prompting her to ask what was wrong. And Textusa is wrong when she says Kate only said 'We've let her down' at the Tapas bar.
Fiona Payne's rogatory statement makes it clear that Kate was still saying this back at the apartment, she specifically says she kept on saying it.
So for Textusa to say 'Either memory fails me, or she couldn’t have known this unless she had nice conversations, afterwards, in those 109 days and certainly over a nice cup of tea, with Kate.' is just silly; her memory may be failing her or she has simply not read FP's rogatory interview.
Claiming that for Mrs Fenn to know what Kate said means that she must have had 'a nice cup of tea with Kate' in the meantime is totally unfair - where is Textusa's proof of this?
As for who did what checking - how do we know anyone did any checking on any particular night or at what time?
Why should we be expected to believe all the stuff about checks every 30 minutes, just because that's what they said? Does anyone seriously believe these people stuck to a rigid timetable of half hour checks?
Another thing - anyone else who might have heard a child crying as they walked past the apartments might just have thought 'Oh, a child crying' and gone on. Unless they stood there for some time how would they know the child kept on crying for so long? Children do cry and yell, but a passer-by is hardly going to pay much attention to that.
In any case, didn't Gerry McCann and some of the others say there were seldom many people around at that time of night?
Plus although to Mrs Fenn the crying and yelling probably sounded like there was no let-up, that doesn't mean it went on at the same volume without Madeleine stopping to draw breath.
I've been talking to a friend on the phone at times while her toddler yelled and screamed in a tantrum in the background; he'd quieten down and we'd breathe a sigh of relief thinking that was it, then he'd start up again - that's normal behaviour and that's what Madeleine could well have been doing (not necessarily a tantrum, but stopping and starting).
If so, someone going past may have heard nothing at all. Textusa seems to have a bee in her bonnet about Mrs Fenn, but IMO it's never a good idea to let your imagination run away with you."
Agree 100%. Lay off Mrs Fenn and concentrate on plausible theories.
Re: Textusa: All paths lead to Rome
T4two on Mon 22 Nov 2010, 2:25 pm
Mrs Fenn was quietly enjoying her retirement when it was rudely interrupted by the arrival of the neighbours from hell in the apartment below.
From the moment they arrived the screaming and shouting of the parents, children crying and frequent banging of doors, only stopped in the mornings after the final slamming of the front door and the strident voices proclaiming "feckin' this" and "feckin' that", had receded into the distance. The old lady would breath a sigh of relief.
With the kids in the creche and the parents at the tennis courts, she could enjoy the luxury of a couple of hours peace and quiet at least.
In the evenings the procedure seemed to repeat itself, except that this time there was no slamming of the front door to signal an end to the disturbance, but she could hear the patio door scraping and footsteps receding from the other side of the apartment, which indicated to her that they had left by that route.
If she turned down the TV and listened very carefully, she could make out intermittent sobbing and sniffling noises from the apartment below, as the children cried themselves to sleep.
One night no matter how loud she turned up the TV it was just impossible not to hear the plaintive crying from the apartment below. Mrs Fenn didn't know what to do. Should she call the police or the Ocean Club and report it?
Not having had anything to do with the police ever before she decided against that course of action. Still, there was always the Ocean Club, but what was the telephone number? Where could she find it? In the directory of course but, it was night-time and she would have difficulty reading the small print under the artificial light even with her reading glasses and anyway to make things even more difficult, it was all in Portuguese.
Mrs Fenn agonized about what to do. The child had been crying for at least an hour now; she must do something, there could be something wrong, the child might need help. So Mrs Fenn rang her best friend and explained the situation.
"But if I call the Ocean Club", she said, "I'm afraid that it will cause a lot of bad feeling with the parents. I've already heard the father referring to me as 'that nosey old bag upstairs' and how he'd 'soon get her to keep her nose out of our business.' He's a very intimidating kind of person and so foul-mouthed, you'd never believe it."
Before her friend could answer she heard the scraping of the patio door from below realized that the crying had already stopped as if turned off by a switch.
"They're back", she wispered, "And the crying's stopped. I'll call you tomorrow."
Mrs Fenn replaced the receiver and set about retiring for the night. "Oh well, not to worry, it'll soon be the end of the week," she thought, "And the problem will resolve itself".
She pushed in the little yellow earplugs that her daughter had brought her a couple of days before and soon drifted off into a deep sleep, oblivious to the swearing and the scraping sounds of moving furniture emanating from the apartment below.
Re: Textusa: All paths lead to Rome
Popcorn on Mon 22 Nov 2010, 2:59 pm
Good post (and a rep point from me) T42. I think that's a far more plausible scenario than a bizarre and not terribly helpful double bluff in which Mrs Fenn - an apparent stranger - exaggerates the McCanns' negligence in an attempt to prove their innocence.
Re: Textusa: All paths lead to Rome
fedrules on Mon 22 Nov 2010, 3:10 pm
You write really well T4two and as others have said sum up Mrs Fenn's dilemma perfectly, especially the part about her reluctance about confronting a foul-mouthed, drunken doctor.. You aren't Mrs Fenn or her friend by any chance are you??
Re: Textusa: All paths lead to Rome
T4two on Mon 22 Nov 2010, 3:25 pm
"Popcorn wrote: Good post (and a rep point from me) T42. I think that's a far more plausible scenario than a bizarre and not terribly helpful double bluff in which Mrs Fenn - an apparent stranger - exaggerates the McCanns' negligence in an attempt to prove their innocence."
If one knows much at all about elderly people, then Mrs Fenn conforms to a common behavoural pattern. She probably has a natural middle-class aversion to having anything to do with the police; it's always associated with a scandal.
Fear of people who exhibit coarse and violent behaviour is a natural reaction of the elderly and as such vulnerable members of society, and simply not wanting to get involved is an attitude which strengthens with age.
If you connect these to the problems that the elderly have involving things which seem incredibly simple to younger people, such as reading a telephone directory at night for example, then her behaviour starts to make sense.
IMO she had to overcome so many barriers of this kind in her own mind before saying anything at all to the police; this is what makes her statement so absolutely believable, and so damning for the McCanns.
Re: Textusa: All paths lead to Rome
fedrules on Mon 22 Nov 2010, 3:33 pm
Popcorn wrote: Good post (and a rep point from me) T42. I think that's a far more plausible scenario than a bizarre and not terribly helpful double bluff in which Mrs Fenn - an apparent stranger - exaggerates the McCanns' negligence in an attempt to prove their innocence.
I agree the whole textusa scenario was very farfetched IMO.
Post Scriptum: As tomorrow is Thanksgiving, I’m finishing stuffing a nice BIG turkey just for you. It will be published here, tomorrow, Nov 25th, 19:00, GMT.
mrs fenns niece carole tranmere has some friends in sandhurst..she used to work at windsor castle..she knows the royals you know..just interesting innit
ReplyDeleteT4two,
ReplyDeleteYou are making also your own theory. Some old ladys that I know, pop their noses everywhere all the time, spreading what they have seen and what they imagine. Even if they have no courage to call the police or the Resort, they will make a comment to somebody near the scenary to make them aware about what they heard or saw. And when the police arrive will be the first to stick at the police feet and deliver all the information. Specially if she already heard Gerry saying what you said he was saying about Mrs. Fenn. She took months to deliver the information and even did not report it to the police, when on the next morning, the police start interviewing everybody. I'm sure, out of the Tapas and the workers she was one of the first persons heard by the police.
I don't know if you know the Algarve, the hotels, the restaurants, etc. But I can tell you, your feeling that Mrs. Fenn did not call the resort because she can't read the number of the Resort or the police, since the letters were small and in portuguese, is WRONG. In Algarve, portuguese people use to mock with themselves because the first language in most places is English, then after come the Portuguese, Spannish, etc. The OC is an English destination, then having the things just write in portuguese is almost impossible. On top of that, the Mccann's were there for one week, but Mrs. Fenn use to spent there a significant amount of months, every year, then she must know the emergency number to call the police or an ambulance. The number is written in many places, then she must bumped on it in a pharmacy, supermarket, clinics, the resort or even in the road. And she must know other neighbours who live there or spent some months there.
BTW, was not Mrs. Fenn who was reported to offer Kate, her help to call the police on that night and Kate refused it saying that they already called the police? Then people realised that who call the police was not the Mccann's or somebody on their behalf, but the lady incharged of the Resort, following her own feeling that the case could be serious and need the intervention of the police? Why the Mccann's did not tell the lady that Maddie was abducted and the police must be called immediately? Seems that the police was called, more because of the worries of the lady working in the OC, then the worries of the Mccann's.
That case is really a passionate case to everybody that loves mystery. But I have the same feeling as Textusa, Mrs. fenn deliberated or not, got inside the Saga and she knows it.
Wonder who is going to bite the nails tonight and hit the walls... somebody in Rothley, Liverpool, Exeter and peraphs in Viv. liliana?
ReplyDeleteJust guessing...
A nice day to all.
ReplyDeleteWith g. translator:
It seems that people go without it. All because of Mcs to flee justice. So go pick on the blogger who is a serious and successful.
But, Textusa is a very strong person in his personality.
And imagine how Textusa have fun and think it's funny all this is a dead time. Not?
Continue because Textus will find entertaining and very funny.
re holding back comment..ok good.no more comments anywhere on the subject from me today..your surprise is better done your way..love you writing though i do have to pop in and out to reread and make sure i get it.
ReplyDeleteTextusa, seems that you hit the nerves of many people, not only the Tapas 9.
ReplyDeleteThis is getting better then Agatha Christie.
Old ladies do not usually have good hears.... if fact this is a quality that old people do not have much, do they?
ReplyDeleteShe may share her concerns with the police in the night of the event and asked for privacy and protection. But she didn't!
For some reason, someone told her to stay out of this. A friendly voice over the phone advice her to keep her month shut up.
Coming 100 days later, it is, at least very suspicious.
People in the neighborhood would heard a child crying out loud in the evening - specially during a huge period of time. This was not an isolated thing late in the evening, this was something that has happened on May 3rd afternoon!
What she might heard here and then was same noise caused by frequent screaming, shouting, banging doors bad vocabulary which may point to some disturbance among this family. After all, Gerry McCann was not in PDL to enjoyed himself. What was he doing there, then?
So, Mrs. Fenn kept her month shut up for 100 days because she did not want to get involved with such a lovely and modern pair...
Obviously she was later influenced to come forward and make her very well detailed statement to the police. What a good memory this lady has and good hears too...
The phone call she was talking about was done directly to Mrs Jennifer and for some reason she was not surprised with McCanns behavior because she heard about them before through is lovely and handy soon Robert, perhaps...?
But Jeniffer and Robert involvement did not ended here... and the church was not a praying temple at that time. Instead was a place to meet the right people and get things done.
You see truth is always simple.
But all of this do not tell us where did they kept her so many days, does it? Keep diving and you get there. Careful about what you wish ... it may happens!
Hello Tex,
ReplyDeleteIt has been a long time and please do save me a glass of champers to celebrate your 80k . I have no interest in the Daily Wail only a link as it does mention the break in.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-476064/Madeleine-Portuguese-police-examine-burglaries-resort.html
Mrs Fenn a couple of weeks before had an attempted burglary and she may have been listening more for noise after this event, I know I would have, you also know I saw some footage here in Spain where Mrs Fenns friend was interviewed about her concerns for the crying child. (the Chaplins saga and possibly something to do with the ever elusive 'Irwin')You also are aware this footage cannot be found.
Mrs Fenn made a comment at one point to a reporter 'It would be terrible if they were involved' and you know me if it is out there I shall find it. I cannot remember if this comment was made before or after Mrs Fenn gave her statement.
Much love to you and your family.
Dani xx
Dani,
ReplyDeleteAs you can see, kind of busy...
Thank you for your comment, and hope things are looking good on your side. You're a fighter, and fighters never give up.
Will certainly hold up my glass for you on the 80K!
Hi Textusa, I agree Mrs Fenn's statement is questionable, elderly people are easily influenced and if told something enough times will believe it. I also think it odd Kate admitting that Madeleine said 'why did you not come when we cried etc.. considering Kates position why say something like this, but when you put the two together Fenn saying she heard a child crying etc etc and what Kate said it gives strength to the ridiculous abduction theory and also places Madeleine still alive that morning. The mccanns had a head start on what was printed in our media and so by the time all the descrepancies started to come out their abduction theory was believed by many. IMO someone spoke to Mrs Fenn just to 'clarify' matters with her and she fell for it, just like little old ladies do and now she believes it. Something is not quite right here. Well done Textusa I enjoy reading your posts they are truly brilliant and best wishes to Ironside.
ReplyDelete