Tuesday, 28 September 2010

My Thoughts & Questions

By Volunteer Contributor Quite Intrigued
1. - This was not a holiday, G swearing on the bus, K's premonition beforehand. It was a planned event but also something unexpected happened to interfere with it.

2. - This group did not know each other well so CM comment 'they were so into each other' is crap. By their own account, the only time they spent together was at dinner, no-one had even been in 5A apart from McCs, and DP on the 3rd.

3. - The children didn't allow them freedom to pursue what they were there for hence the need for a crèche (a maid babysitting in a villa would have made a good witness if the adults all went out together during the day so maybe a reason not to have a villa) BUT if they were avoiding their activities being monitored before they went away then a plan was in place in the UK. What records are there of the adults activities while the children were in the crèche apart from the purported sailing trip and the hint of McCs going to Sagres.... that would mean a hire car?

4. - They didn't produce bank or credit card statements because their purchases would not show the trip was paid for by someone else. Not producing them does not indicate they are hiding what they DID buy but what they DIDN'T. Did one of the group have control of a 'company' card which paid for everyone and the reason they ate and drank together in a bar?

5. - The adults were not familiar with the others children, therefore they didn't spend time together before or during the 'holiday'. They didn't have a checking rota for one person to visit all children which would be more normal for a group of friends. (Not that I'm sure they did any checking at all)

6. - I haven't looked at the swinging aspect so cannot comment on that but wondered whether they were all at a conference/meetings of some sort (BIVDA or Freeport)

7. - The mother stayed at the table when K sounded the alarm because she wanted to keep out of the game

8. - GM wanted someone to come forward to see a child being carried (I think maybe a decoy child)

9. - JT wasn't able to adapt her planned part when things went slightly wrong,

10. - I believe DP had a major role, maybe the cause of M's death. But why are his statements being allowed to go unchallenged as they are the most crucial? First he states he last saw M at 5pm in the apartment with both parents then later he says he was at the courts when G told him to go and look in on K at 6ish. He says she had bathed the kids because he describes how they looked. 3 minutes and 30 minutes, huge difference.

11. - RM, who looks similar to DP, is then implicated when there was a news article that he could be called as a witness - which has since disappeared. What has DP got on the others they daren't speak? Was the Lolita photo produced as a warning to someone?

12. - RM was involved in some way, maybe one of his agents gave a 'key' to someone to 'view' one of his properties. A body could have been stored in an empty apartment and if there was only 1 or 2 'keys' no-one else could get in until they were returned. If there were 2 then RM might have held one so implicated by chance if not knowingly. Why was the property in Burgau searched and what is the significance of the kinship DNA found there of JT and RM? They both also had connections to the town in the UK where she lives.

13. - YM knew DP and he knew her, was it a coincidence she was there at the time?

14. - I don't believe M fell off the sofa (if at all) at 9 but wonder why GA gave this misinformation, what would he gain by it? Maybe to trap someone into contradicting him and highlighting she was dead. He has a good reason known to himself and some others in the know. GA also pushes she was definitely last seen at 5.30 and I feel he is giving this as misinformation too. Was she really in the crèche 3rd May afternoon?

15. - There are far too many coincidences even down to the owner of 5A being called McCann

16. - Did the McCs play tennis at home as K's activities in the UK were stated as going to the gym and taking the kids swimming although she was obviously a runner. G only mentions golf and cycling. Did any of the others normally play tennis? If so why would they need a tennis coach in PdL or why would they be playing with SC who was not so fit? It seems the group had to stay on site to amuse themselves at OC or close to it and if so there was a reason. Waiting to be called to something? The sea at PdL is freezing April/May (I know, I tried it on my visits in April/May-and I swim in the sea in England) so why did the person who fell in the water while sailing not mention this.....did anyone REALLY go sailing or did they go off to a meeting?

17. - K's parents and G's family know the truth.

18. - M had a condition, Turner's, Kabuki or something else. K's description of M struggling to do things like riding her bike supports this. Her short fingers visible in the football top photo. Was it a life limiting condition? Therefore no medical records produced. Were those bruises on her face in the Lolita photos? Some illnesses cause bruising not just phyisical abuse. She looks lifeless in that photo and when you put it into another format she actually looks dead. I don't know whether she was physically abused.

19. - Who was the 'aunt' who was going to 'adopt' M? She must have been a very difficult child

20. - Too many throw away remarks, JT's clothing, the bead in M's hair, M and S crying the previous night ....as for giving her tuppence worth, that sounds like a fond memory of a dead child.

As for all the contradictions.....far too numerous to mention!


  1. Just being pedantic, but I think it was KM who said they were "so into each other", rather than CM. Doesn't make any difference though - it was a ludicrous thing to say whoever said it.

  2. British Claire28 Sep 2010, 19:09:00

    Did you also notice that the prescription drugs found and videoed when their second apartment was searched were prescribed by a pharmacist with the name McCann?

  3. There are newspaper reports of their trip to Sagres. A restaurant owner and a shopkeeper clain to have seen the whole McCann family in Sagres. Account in PJ files.

  4. QI
    'Did one of the group have control of a 'company' card which paid for everyone and the reason they ate and drank together in a bar?'

    Interesting point, never thought of this before.

    I keep on wondering what Kate meant with 'we've let her down'.
    Why only Madeleine? They let the twins down as well, didn't they?

  5. For me, 2 interesting points in this post. First, the fact that they didn't pick each others children up, as would be expected from a group of friends spending their holidays together and second, Murat's involvement seems to be greater than expected. Much as been speculated about his silence. I believe he has as much to lose as the rest of the lot.

    Couldn't help but think how lame an excuse tennis has been. I mean, just reading it makes the whole thing seem complete fiction. In fact, so keen on tennis, what did they need the lecture and lessons for? How many holiday sites, with the quality of the OC have a tennis teacher? From my experience, there are many with the courts, and you bring your own equipment and knowledge. And I've seen many people playing anything but tennis, on some tennis courts.

    The McCanns are lying, that's a fact. Why are they allowed to do so with such ease is the main question.

  6. Exactly what I feel since they raise suspiction. There is a gap of cars from April 28 untill May 3. I believe that gap is only for the public and not for police. The most important clues were hold under secrecy.
    A portuguese guy owner of a bar in Vilamoura Marina was called later night of May 3, by a friend of Kate mother, to help Kate with situation (the missing Madeleine was the story she told him). At the time, the alarm was already raised and the police was already in place, then Why calling a guy Kms away from the crime scene? That guy called the police and was informed that the police was already in the OC. When he contacted Kate, she did not want his help. Why? if the girl was missing, under a Paedo abductor and he had a bar in a very busy Marina in Algarve? At least, she should ask him to be attentive and thanks his help. That is just an example whch got to light trough the portuguese newspapers, but how many other people were contacted by Mccann's or somebody related with them, to help, during the afternoon or before the alarm? How many people they manage to foolish? Somebody helped them without knowing what was going on and when realised the truth had to shut up to avoid being involved in a crime which edges they don't know.
    I also don't buy a total innocence of Murat and people connected with him. I believe he was the first one they fool and without knowing he got involved in a very naif way. They know Murat and Murat know many people in Algarve. A car and a house was used on May 3 and after, to conceal Madeleine. When are this people going to open their mouths and start telling the missing parts on Madeleine last story?

  7. The Tennis and the jogging are excuses on that story. Who went for a cheap holiday in a sunny place with a great beach to spend the days playing Tennis or do jogging? The Tennis was an excuse to keep Gerry busy and inside the OC on the 'day they decide to raise the alarm'. The jogging was used after, to justify their presence in strange and isolated places, and to divert the attention of the police and the Media during the first weeks.
    Amaral and the rest of the inspectors got the true picture since minute one. They propose the head of PJ to provide a kind of spy to follow the Mccann's without being noticed. A legal strategy used in many countries to help the police solve crimes. The proposal was refused on the grounds that they were foreigners, doctors and british and the proposal could be seen as an insult by the british authorities, embarassing Portugal. They were left with free movements and knowing exactly what the police was doing every day ( trough the embassy). Then what they had to control was the portuguese Media and the public to avoid any curious eyes which can spot something suspicious. If the body was inside a house, going for jogging outside, playing with religion and the church will be very convennient and a good strategy to keep the public and the media busy, out of the 'hot place'(the house). Whatever hapenned to Madeleine got a plan in some way. What was unplanned was the intelligence and the clevernness of GNR and PJ. Even on that issue, I think somebody sale them the idea of an incompetent police, exactly the same idea that British Media printed for many months. This is why they don't pay too much attention to their timeline of events and their statments. They believe that will be easy to fool the police. A huge mistake and that is why we still here, after more then 3 years, looking for justice, waiting for the truth.

  8. Anon @ 11.58

    To my knowledge 'to let someone down' is medical speak for putting someone to sleep(as in euthanasia). Sometimes enough medication has to be administered to relieve suffering but which causes death in terminal patients.

    If M had a life limiting condition she may have been on medication. Poster @ 7.09, have you got a link to the video you refer to? I haven't seen it.

    When I considered the lack of credit card statements for a group of holiday makers it just doesn't make sense. How does anyone hire a car or travel abroad without one now? Could it be their own personal cards were kept for personal expenditure?

    I wasn't really thinking of a business/company credit card but just one card purposely used for any transactions of the entire group which could be paid for by a 3rd party. I did think for a moment it could be so the group could divide their expenditure between them at the end of the holiday but that seems highly unlikely.

    Anon at 12.01

    Tennis would be a poor substitute for a keen golfer like GM.
    If these people were such keen tennis players why would they need lessons? Coaching, to attain a higher level maybe but not lessons. It just doesn't stack up when The Algarve is noted for it's golf courses.

    I think there was a reason the group had to hang around the OC and would like to know if anyone else could suggest why.

    I have read somewhere that the MCs were seen as a family in Sagres, if it was them they must have used a car. Where from? There must be a record or credit card payment, unless someone they knew had a car and took them there but it would need to be a big car so did someone lend them a car?
    So who did they know around PdL who could or would lend them a car? Could it be someone who did so in all innocence and got involved unwittingly?

    What I don't understand is why no-one has come forward with evidence of how the group paid for everything involved with the trip. The airline, the OC, bars and restaurants, car hire companies. All these places have records or is it like the phone log information and medical records and being stifled?

    When will a journalist be able to tackle this? There must be someone out there(Deep Throat....not the film... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Throat) dying to spill the beans.


  9. Anon @3.01

    The video mentioned by poster 7.09 is one I can't find either but have seen it. It shows someone holding the cards of tablets with "noon" and "night' written on it I think

    (Its not the one which is shown in a 'photograph form' somewhere else - these tablets shown in a photograph apparently were for Gerry's father/relative with a heart condition and were taken at the Villa they stayed in when they moved from the apartment).

    I agree that this holiday may have been 'organised' by someone else or some company - it's so suspicious about the payment of things. Maybe why they didn't pay cash up-front for baby-sitting service.

    Another point I want to make about cctv. I don't want to confuse or alter evidence - but some time ago I read a site where GA stated they have ' cctv film' which hadn't been divulged which they could use to clarify evidence. I have been unable to find this "page' and feel that it may have been removed.

    I expect I haven't helped at all.


  10. The prescription with MCann on it was a Spanish TV film. I clearly remember it and trying to find a chemist with the name McCann in Liverpool. I will look in my archives to see if I can find the link.

  11. http://tv1.rtp.pt/noticias/?t=PJ-efectua-busca-a-uma-vivenda.rtp&headline=20&visual=9&article=44431&tm=8

    PJ efectua busca a uma vivenda
    2007-05-14 21:56:55

    (não sei se funciona. Aqui está a demorar)-

    Portanto não sei se será este.

  12. The video is on You Tube -Exclusive new video Madeleine McCann case at 1.29. You can see the prescription. The CEOP manuals also on view at their second apartment. The video has subtitles.

  13. J McCann Dispensing chemist, Aigburth Rd, Liverpool.

  14. The video is at Mccannfiles ('extended video from Eddie and Keela).
    The prescription was to Brian Healy om May 19. The pharmacist was J. Mccann from Liverpool.
    Liverpool is the home town of Kate. So many Mccann's around the all saga. The owner of the 5A is also a Mccann from Liverpool. Is the name Mccann very popular in UK? Like 'Silva' in Portugal? If not, a really odd smell is around Madeleine tragedy.

  15. Anon @ 5.18

    Thanks for that - I was told that these were for heart problems but it definitely states they are sedatives.

    Very much obliged for your help.


  16. Anon@11.03

    Well, well, well. That is very interesting. I don't know about the name 'McCann' but without being too personal they may be Catholics, as are Gm and KM, in which case there would necessarily be a lot of them.

    I will nip over to mccannfiles and have a look - thank you.


  17. I had a Scottish grandmother and spent many holidays in Scotland as a child as well going back as an adult. I have never met or known anyone named McCann so I don't think it is awell known name.

  18. The portuguese PGR did not need new evidences to reopen the case and bring the all Tapas and some other characters to court. He just need to go back to all the evidences he have and add what Mccann's have done during more then 3 years to solve the case. Over the time, their guilt become clear: ONLY PARENTS WHO KNOW AND ARE ABSOLUTLY SURE THAT THEIR CHILD HAS NO CHANCE TO BE SEEN OR COME BACK, CAN PLAN EVENTS MANY MONTHS AHEAD AND PLAY THAT EVENTS AS A COMEMORATION FOR SOMETHING WHICH BRING THEM HAPINNESS INSTEAD OF PAIN. I can't imagine parents in pain, because of the lost of their child, organizing a VIP dinner in one of the best restaurants to meet VIP people who they don't know well. Were not part of their friends or family. Then, that dinner is nothing else then a Party to promote themselves and grab money and fool some more people.
    I can't understand a huge truck with Madeleine's face crossing Belgium, as an outdoor. Why Belgium and not China or the moon? Did not make sense. Every step, a new red light is shinning, showing that they know where she is and why she should be there and not in a public place where anybody touched by her tragedy could leave her, at least, a small flower.

  19. Just some events and their calendary, to be looked with a pinch of salt:
    6 June 2007- Mccann's in Berlin. A journalist from a radio ask them a very disturbed question about a growing number of people who point fingers at them believing that they could be involved in the crime. The question was so disturbing that Gerry had to write about it in his blog.
    7 June 2007 - Mccann's in Amsterdan and his Blog " After the scheduled meetings, Gerry catches up with 'a friend of mine (Gerry's words) who was attending a medical conference in Amsterdam'". It is speculated that this was Matthew Oldfield who is believed to have been attending the Euromedlab 2007 event in the city at that time.
    When asked what message they would give to Madeleine, there was a long silence before Mrs McCann said quietly: "She knows we love her." ( Daily Mail, 07 June 2007) - AGAIN KATE SAYING A SENTENCE WHICH IS NORMALLY USED WHEN SOMEBODY TALK ABOUT A RELATIVE WHO PASSED AWAY.
    8 June 2007(Friday)-At night, Kate and the family head off down to the church for the Friday night vigil. Gerry stays in the apartment as he was 'just too shattered'.
    9 June 2007- After press interviews, Kate and Gerry head off to the beach at Sagres, for a family lunch.
    10 June 2007-Late in the afternoon catch a flight to Casablanca.
    A Mobile phone call is alleged tracked by investigators, between Russell O'Brien and Gerry McCann.
    11 June 2007-An anonymous letter and map are received in the offices of The Telegraaf, which claim to show where Madeleine is buried. Mccann's were in Rabat.
    15 june 2007-Police with sniffer dogs search scrubland 9 miles from Praia da Luz where Madeleine's body is reported to be. police find a towel. The place was too wild. Amaral said they don't show any anguish about what the letter claims. Strange!! BTW IS THAT PLACE ON THE WAY FROM PDL TO SAGRES? 9 MILES AWAY FROM PDL ( That remember me the cellar from Dave Edgar 10 miles away.)
    19 June 2007- Shortly after arriving in London, Gerry reports that his wallet has been stolen at an ATM at Waterloo station in central London. Other reports suggest Gerry's wallet was stolen close to Tony Blair's Downing Street office. ( VERY CONVENNIENT).
    Philomena McCann, said: "Gerry took out £100 from a hole in the wall machine, put it in his wallet then popped it in his back pocket. He bent down to put something in his rucksack and some dirty animal had the wallet out of his back pocket. We don't care about the money (AH! AH!), but we do care about getting the pictures of Madeleine back."
    Susan Healy said: "Gerry is not clear how his wallet was stolen. He did not see them take it.
    Gerry is then forced to delay the series of meetings while he cancels his credit cards. ( THEN, THEY HAVE CREDIT CARDS IN PDL, SINCE HIS TRIP AROUND EUROPE STARTS IN PDL).
    Clarence Mitchell said could not immediately confirm details of the theft. London police said they had no record of the theft being reported to officers.

    (My perverted mind easily push me into a line which connects all this events. They with their supportive friends could be behind the Letter sent to the newspaper. The letter appeared exactly when journalists in Berlin, start pointing the fingers at them. The theft, to divert the attention from Credit cards and what this credit cards payed). I believe many issues after May 3 were payed in cash.)

  20. QI,@29 Sep. 3:01pm, about the McCanns having(or not) access to a car before 3rd May, I read something about R.Murat that might be related to that. The attendant from a rental car agency testified that Murat had rented a car there and he had explained that he needed a rental car because he had lent his own car to some "english people". Read about it here:


    Why on earth would he lent his own car to complete strangers(as he claims he never met them before) and go and spend good money on a rental car? Out of the goodness of his heart?...
    This was on the 12th May, but if he did it then , who knows if he hadn't done it before? Maybe he had lent his car to the them during the holidays or even drove them around? Had they met before in the UK, or maybe someone known to all of them from the UK "ordered" Murat to help the Tapas people?
    So many loose ends...

  21. RM is involved in this affair, no doubt about it at all. Sagres is no place for a family beach picnic at that time of the year. It is ice cold, windy and completely miserable, and the roughest sea you have ever seen ! Unless of course they went there for a reason.

  22. I found even the beach at PdL was too cold and windy for a picnic at that time of year. Sagres was incredibly so and we got straight back into the car and drove away. I remember it being a bit desolate and nothing much was open. I think it's where beer is made?

  23. No beer factory in Sagres, sorry, lol...Sagres, the beer brand, has no connection with the goegraphical place of Sagres Cape (promontório de Sagres), except for the name. It is an historic place, with a military fortress, connected with the portuguese overseas ventures (Descobertas)that begun in the early 15th century with Prince Henrique, the Navigator, also know as the "Infante de Sagres", or Prince of Sagres. The now disappeared village of Sagres ( Vila do Infante) and the lands around belonged to the prince and he died in the said village in 1460
    The legend says that the prince used to sit on the tip of the cape, looking across to the distant shores of northern Africa, dreaming of discovery voyages and the conquest of new lands for Portugal and that it was also
    on the Sagres cape that Henry the Navigator had his maritime school, the famous Escola de Sagres, and that it could also be a possible location of the above mentioned village.
    It's an interesting place to visit, particularly if you're an History buff, and the views are amazing. In a very clear day one can indeed see the distant landline of Morocco.

  24. Anon @12:54, the beer Sagres is made in Vialonga, a town in the Lisbon district, not related with the algarvian Sagres.

  25. Maddie eye defect - Coloboma Developmental abnormalities:

    C- Colobomas and Cranial Nerves

    H- Heart problems

    A- Atresia of the choanae (blocked or narrow nasal passages)

    R- Retardation of Growth

    G- Genital and urinary abnormalities

    E- Ear and hearing abnormalities

  26. The McCann's bank records may have been held back because the PJ would have found payments to Gerry from the British government which could not be allowed to go public. His wallet was "stolen" is a lie. That he had no credit cards is a lie. Why would the government allow these lies in a criminal investigation? They would do it only if the government itself has something to hide. Gerry is a nobody, but he is a nobody who got paid for something that cannot be disclosed.

  27. ‘….The analogy that I like to use is a bit like when we were students and you'd got to your overdraft limit and you'd gone beyond it and there was just nothing left in the tank….’ (Gerry McCann).

    Says it all.

  28. Yes, that comment about being overdrawn was enough to induce nausea in any decent person. But would any parent in this situation blog abou haircuts, jogging and eating "mince and tatties"?
    Excuse me whilst I recover my composure!

  29. Just imagine how nauseous it is to be working with Gerry as a fellow writer of medical papers and not believing a word he says.

  30. Anon@12.28

    Just be thankful you are not one of his patients!

    If this is how he describes his feeling about the abduction of his child what would his perception of someone who is ill be. Now there's a thought - maybe this is why he doesn't come into contact with patients directly, although I did see a video clip of him actually doing this somewhere, but the official line is, he doesn't.


  31. Anon 12.28 Contact would probably induce a heart attack

  32. You really don't know why the Burgau apartment was searched? Then you have no right to be making pronouncements on the case if you cannot be bothered to read the damn files!!!!

  33. Gerry checking on a patient, it's in their "documentary" "Madeleine was here", I think. They filmed him at the hospital(Glenfield?). I wonder how they got the patient to oblige...having his medical situation on display for the world to see...or...maybe the man was not a real patient but someone hired to play the part.

  34. What is a consolation is that soon the twins and the Tapas childs will be in the Internet reading and grabbing information about the gaps they have on Madeleine story. Their school friends will ask them difficult questions and will confront them with the doubts and the feelings their parents have at home.
    Madeleine story, unsolved like it is, will never go away, wil never fade on the public memory. People will be talking about that girl for many years and will be tyding the knots for the only situation which make sense, her death and her parents and Tapas friends involved on ot.
    Mccann's nightmare will start inside their doors. Just wait for their twins to grow-up. Their dormant memory will be clarified, the behaviour of their parents will be evaluated and what they heard or saw inside their house will tell them the truth.
    Exactly like adopted childs always have the curiosity to know their Biologic family, the twins will fight the world to know what hapenned to their sister.

  35. Anon @ 3.54

    If you notice the title of the piece it clearly states Thoughts & Questions NOT pronouncements. I's not so much of why was the property in Burgau was searched but what information were they working on and from whom did it originate? Much of the information we get to know about may have been obtained through a game of Chinese Whispers or deliberate misinformation.

    I still have a lot to learn and not afraid to ask questions to improve my knowledge and even change my opinion as facts emerge.

    There is no need to be aggressive!


  36. Anon 5:51
    '... the patient... having his medical situation on display for the world to see ...'
    Your read my thoughts.
    An umpteenth McCann victim IMO.

  37. One reason the property was searched was reported at the time to be Portuguese tracker dogs following a trail to a beach bar in Burgau owned by the Eveleighs. The story of the Polish couple then followed. QI is right to ask rhetorical questions. I know QI has read the original documnets in great detail!

  38. Why were the children taken out on the water by the nannies in those weather conditions? A risky business which would surely have requred wetsuits. M said "I'm scared" Poor little girl-she had every reason to be.

  39. Anon @ 3.54
    Quote taken from The Sargeant's

    "What led to the forensic examination of the Apartment of the Hotel Sol e Mar in Burgau, has thus far remained a mystery, but one explanation seems more plausible than all the rest".

    I suggest YOU read the files!


Comments are moderated.

Comments are welcomed, but its reserved the right to delete comments deemed as spam, transparent attempts to get traffic without providing any useful commentary, and any contributions which are offensive or inappropriate for civilized discourse.